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Resumes are a mainstay of the job application process — despite little evidence that they actually help job-seekers or employers get what they want. So why are we still so preoccupied with them? HR leader Nicos Marcou dives into the absurdity of these one-page documents (or can they be two pages?) and offers an update…
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Butane9000
October 14, 2023 at 10:15 am
I think it’d also help employers to change how and what they advertise in the job itself especially regards to “entry level” work that requires multiple years of experience. It’s misrepresenting the position or demanding far more work of the employee then the company is willing to actually pay for. Also, I’ve been looking for work since march 2023 and I’ve seen a large amount of video interviews or “screening” calls before a traditional interview. I applied to a place and had to go through multiple short form video recordings answering 2-3 questions. I highly doubt these short form video’s are any better then a few seconds to review a resume.
In regards to a resume at it’s basic premise is a clear example of past work. Yes, some skills and work may not apply to a new position especially if changing careers. But that isn’t to say all skills don’t translate. I worked retail from cashier to department manager over 8 years then switched careers. The new job hired me specifically for my customer service experience even though I had little technical knowledge or direct experience with the new job. I have an interview coming up as I’m trying to change careers again and the position uses some of the skills of my last job but not all of them.
I don’t think resume’s are bad, but the fact is companies don’t put enough effort to look at people objectively or take the time to learn or interview the person. On the flip side HR departments are inundated with applications and if there’s 1,000 applicants for 1 position (especially prevalent today with remote work and the internet) how do you reasonably handle that volume?
Uruz2012
October 14, 2023 at 2:14 pm
Those recordings are for an AI to evaluate you for wierdness so they can legally discriminate.
niccolom
October 14, 2023 at 3:40 pm
@Uruz2012 You can’t blame discrimination every time you get rejected.
Nobody wants to hire anyone who would mess up their companies.
Imogen Dedo
October 14, 2023 at 10:27 am
This doesnt work for roles that require hard skills. Interviews is where you gauge communication skills. Video testimonial, thats what interviews are for.
RAZR
October 14, 2023 at 10:55 am
The Mona Lisa is : Obscenely Over Rated…
Kankopubgm
October 14, 2023 at 11:15 am
Good
John Bloodworth
October 14, 2023 at 11:28 am
As a person that just goes in to the office and works I hate writing a resume because I have a hard time putting in to words what I do everyday
niccolom
October 14, 2023 at 3:21 pm
Wouldn’t you hate even more to go through all those tests that the speaker suggested?
I’d rather write a resume.
Civil Savant
October 14, 2023 at 11:36 am
I don’t know if I agree that Marcou’s suggestions are the right way to go, but he’s right, resumes need to be re-imagined. I always assumed their purpose was so business people could learn about what work is.
Da Vinci was NOT one of the most intelligent and talented people ever, he was one of the extremely rare competent people born into privilege. Typical privilege-descended people are bottom-of-the-barrel useless, so of course the very few with average human ability stand out easily. We’d be living in a world of Da Vincis if humanity would liberate itself from the parasites and end the era of rulership that keeps our species enslaved.
syed asad ali
October 14, 2023 at 12:19 pm
As if he knew what I am going through….
Jennifer Williams
October 14, 2023 at 12:25 pm
The AI systems are a massive barrier and are causing people to lose jobs and job opportunities. This entire job searching process is awful, and the use of AI to make decisions about human lives is bordering on dystopian. There must be a better way! And it is up to employers to make the change. Until they do, we are all at their mercy, hoping that some company will deign to bestow largesse upon us all with a lucrative job, just as soon as we trick the AI into giving one to all of us!
niccolom
October 14, 2023 at 3:37 pm
The AI solution for HR managers is not wrong in itself. The issue is that the AI is primitive and seems to weed out good candidates along with bad candidates.
Mind you, the AI does not decide who to hire. There is still human input in the final decision. Therefore, the biggest worry here is that the AI rejects the best candidates. The AI does NOT give you a job.
If you want to suggest a new hiring process, the first issue you must address is HOW you are going to trim down the number of applicants from hundreds down to several.
The speaker did not address that at all. His suggestions only serve to add even more stress on the hundreds of candidates.
Jennifer Williams
October 14, 2023 at 6:10 pm
@niccolom I think that you are not adequately describing the role of AI in hiring and the inherent “black box problem” of AI. AI in hiring fosters pigeonholing and inhibits changing career fields. There are many other issues, but I don’t intend to lay them all out in the YouTube comment section. I appreciate your input but I respectfully contend that you are minimizing the true impact of AI in hiring decisions, and thusly minimizing the real harms caused to real people by AI systems.
niccolom
October 15, 2023 at 12:26 am
Just wondering, have you ever been the hiring manager?
Don Lachlan
October 15, 2023 at 12:30 pm
“AI” (software robots) corrects for a lot of problems that have long existed with human recruiters: they were inconsistent, often arbitrary, with varying types and degrees of prejudice. And they were often petty. I read one story from a recruiter who tossed an applicant because the candidate’s college beat the recruiter’s college in football. The article had plenty more examples of similar behavior.
Now that things can be done entirely online, folks flood companies with resumes, meaning they have to use some software (and criteria) to filter before anyone ever looks at it.
niccolom
October 15, 2023 at 2:13 pm
@Don Lachlan Agree 100%.
As the hiring manager, I don’t care for the 400 resumes I receive. I only need a tool — any tool — to filter it down to a few.
Without the AI, my own filter would be “the chronological order of submission”, which is obviously much worse than anything the AI does. I cut off when I feel I have enough candidates.
Jennifer Williams
October 15, 2023 at 5:09 pm
@niccolom no, I have only conducted interviews of a few people, and have never made the final decision, and that is in part because of AI filtering. I think that when someone is filtered out by the computer, they do not have a chance at the job, because no being ever sees their resume, and that is in end of itself, a decision to discount a human being being made by a computer. As someone who has worked in IT, I think that what you may be missing is how computers process information. Have you ever worked in IT, or taken any classes on programming? Do you know how computers work, in that way?
The fact is, because of the black box problem of all so-called AI systems (and I think that the term “AI” is very misleading, and it permits people to project onto these systems an agency that they are fundamentally incapable of), and the degree of automation that these systems use, literally no one knows how these systems make decisions. That is a lot of faith to put in to computer system blindly. Real people are harmed. Algorithms are literally generating output that effects peoples lives, and their ability to survive. If we had an economic system where people’s basic needs were met, and the kind of work that someone does was not determinative of their ability to live, then fine, I would not say that these computer systems are hurting people, but we don’t live in that world, and we don’t live under that system. In this late-capitalist world, people need work that is adequately remunerative to survive, and those jobs are getting rarer over time. These AI systems are destroying the economic ladder for millions of workers. You might ask, how is that happening? It is happening because the scoring systems will preference someone with experience in a field over someone without experience, but who may have relevant skills and education. Thusly, human recruiters only see that handful people who might apply, and everyone else literally doesn’t exist for them. That is immensely harmful to those innocent people trying to move up in the world. I have suffered greatly because of this, and I know many other people who have suffered greatly as well.
niccolom
October 15, 2023 at 5:49 pm
@Jennifer Williams
The main issue is, whether it’s AI or not, I need to do filtering because I am not going to interview all 400 applicants.
Without the use of the AI filtering, my human way of filtering is to read the applications in chronological order as they come in, and I auto-reject the rest once I feel I have enough people I’m interested in interviewing given my time restraints.
So, let’s say the posting is open for 2 weeks, and I have received 400 applications in the first 2 days. I’m just going to ignore the rest that comes in the last 12 days. I’ll start reading from the first one, and I’ll likely get enough interesting candidates by the 30th application. The other 370 also gets auto-rejected without being viewed at all by any humans or machines.
How is that a better way of filtering applicants from my point of view? And how is that fair for those who applied later than others?
From my point of view, any algorithm is better and fairer than “chronological order”.
Radium Minis
October 14, 2023 at 12:52 pm
Why would resumes evolve? Theyve been kinda useless the entire time
niccolom
October 14, 2023 at 3:30 pm
What do you mean useless?
They are useful in weeding down candidates to a manageable size.
I’m not going to spend the whole week interviewing 400 applicants.
Steven Porter
October 14, 2023 at 1:12 pm
4:47
People aren’t questioning the process because they can’t do anything about it. All they can control is their submission.
Austin Denotter
October 14, 2023 at 1:43 pm
I hope this guy didn’t get paid for this.
cat server
October 14, 2023 at 2:24 pm
I think we need to go back to hiring people who can do the job, like doing the job, and will show up to do it. Those are three things that are very hard to qualify with a resume, a long questionnaire, human resource interviews with people who themselves were hired in the same way as the applicant. The problem with hiring from someone’s view of themselves is you can’t possibly see what they really are. And neither can they. There’s way too many “qualified on paper” people working in jobs they don’t like with people they can’t tolerate. Meanwhile, someone who could enjoy the job and do it consistently are many times overlooked or don’t even try to get the job at all. That’s why there are people with high education or experience levels who are working in grocery stores, fast food, and some even being homeless and unable to even afford an outfit to physically impress an HR director. Personally, I think a universal income would free people to be who they really are and who do that thing they were meant to do. In particular to the resume problem, just finding a free template that shows your abilities and why you would be good for a position is nearly impossible. There’s no way of knowing once it leaves your email if it even transferred over the way it was intended. Just a cover letter alone should be enough. JMO.
Mr. Pandabites
October 14, 2023 at 2:28 pm
The rea question is, why haven’t wages?
niccolom
October 14, 2023 at 3:15 pm
What you suggested is even more stressful than trying to write the perfect resume.
Also, what you suggested can happen AFTER the resume evaluation stage. They do not replace the resume, but rather they are just another step of the hiring process.
The reason that resumes should continue to exist is that, there is simply no quicker way to learn the most about a candidate in the shortest time.
You mentioned that you could invite people in for tests. How do you invite 400 candidates in? You have to filter out and invite only a handful.
There is really no other way than the resume.
How about this: imagine you feel adventurous and want to try a new restaurant tonight. You open google, and dozens of restaurants pop up. How do you choose which one to go to? Surely, you look at the pictures first. That’s their form of resume. Then perhaps you would check out the reviews. That’s equivalent to LinkedIn and reference letters.
You simply can’t avoid the resume.
niccolom
October 14, 2023 at 3:33 pm
Many people apply for 10-20 jobs per day.
Imagine you force them to do a 30-minute test for each application.
Dylan Buchman
October 16, 2023 at 1:49 am
Many people do that? ☠️☠️ idk sounds like those people might be their own problem
niccolom
October 16, 2023 at 2:31 am
@Dylan Buchman
But those are people who need the most help.
K. M. Hill
October 14, 2023 at 3:43 pm
I have always felt that there is nothing more broken in the world of work than the recruitment process, resumes being one among many ineffective elements that remain tradition-bound, limiting and wholly ineffective.
Christy Nicholas, Author
October 14, 2023 at 4:23 pm
I’ve gone through the ‘testing’ options, as well as the ‘record a video of yourself answering questions’ and gamification. I was applying for senior-manager level finance positions. But these are AFTER I sent in my resume. And had to fill in everything on the website because it either didn’t parse my resume properly or at all.
Christy Nicholas, Author
October 14, 2023 at 4:24 pm
Also, jobs… STOP HIDING YOUR PAY RATE. I won’t even apply anymore if you can’t even give me a range. Sure, leave room for negotiation, no problem. But I don’t want to waste my time (and I have) on jobs that are paying 50% what I’m making now.
Roy Al Webster
October 14, 2023 at 4:56 pm
How about letting applicants dance for a role? Or put them in a ring and let them wrestle!
Roberta Williams
October 14, 2023 at 6:05 pm
This was excellent 💯💯💯
Stefan C
October 14, 2023 at 6:34 pm
That was an excellent Ted talk, very informative!
Shawn J
October 14, 2023 at 6:53 pm
Nice idea, but how would an employer implement it at scale?
Melissa0774
October 14, 2023 at 6:57 pm
I don’t agree with his solutions at the end. I have always thought the whole resume thing was B.S, though. Resumes are obsolete. It made sense in the days before the internet when you actually had to send paper ones in the mail. But now I think the only reason they still exist is because the whole cottage industry of people who give advice about how to write them and make videos about it and do coaching and all that stuff, would go away and they’re not going to let that happen. I don’t see why employers can’t just have online applications where you either fill in all the questions manually if you want to, or it can take the information from a resume if you have one. And then the application should include any other job specific questions they want to know. This would eliminate all the stupid guesswork about what font or format to use, and what positions to include, vs. not include, or whether or not to put hobbies and interest etc. If the employer wants to know that information they’ll ask you on the application and if they don’t ask, then you can safely assume it’s not relevant. I don’t know why they don’t do it this way.
IHatSarks
October 14, 2023 at 8:46 pm
tbh the skill tests are not helpful either.
Goran Zulfic
October 14, 2023 at 10:03 pm
We need more innovators then politicians
PB
October 15, 2023 at 2:13 am
People who structurally test employees who don’t know they are being tested, should be locked up to protect society. I’m just saying: let people do their jobs, and do something useful in stead of frustrating them to check how they act under pressure.
Floyd Maseda
October 15, 2023 at 3:56 am
You literally just suggested “Make candidates do work for you before they work for you.”
If a company makes me take some bullshit test or do some whole project or something, I just move on to the next company. If you don’t respect my time when I’m asking to work for you, what makes me think you will respect my time when I’m actually working for you?
I agree resumes suck, but none of your proposed solutions are any better. Let me tell you what I know, and you can make a decision on whether or not you want someone who knows that.
André Marshall
October 15, 2023 at 6:06 am
Thats crazy to change jobs that often. I don’t need to worry about resumes anymore. Retired at 50, I have cancer so I’m sweet. Don’t have to worry about this crazy world anymore 🙂
r@z
October 15, 2023 at 8:45 am
As an autistic INTJ, I could a share a couple of things that nobody talks about even though we’re in 2023 and the world should have changed by now, but unfortunately it didn’t.
*1.* Nobody asks themselves why some people have different life paths than others. Those like Jack Ma had to fail countless times in life just because they were meant to do much greater things than others. He was meant for instance to end up in a position where he created an instrument for 1 billion of people.
*2.* From 15 years of school, with bachelor and master degrees included, I could honestly say that 90% of it was a total waste of time. At every single job I’ve been to, everything that I have learned was on the job spot. Playing video games like Counter Strike, and a couple RPGs in my teenage years helped me much more than school ever did. Obviously, if I would have chosen a career in medicine, then this would’ve been different. I chose “Banking & Finances” even though when I was 13, 14 y.o. I loved both Biology and Chemistry. Went to some Olympics.
*3.* The power of belief, expectations and self-confidence. The 3rd side of the mind, our Shadow where all our fears and worries lay on.
At my first job where I worked for 5 years and 2 months I ended, alongside another colleague, managing 4 teams with 80 people in total while I’ve also been an employee’s representative and while I’ve also been in Top3 performers of the month for one of these teams. My weakest skill was doing appraisals to my Operations Manager and other managers who were higher “on the hierarchy scale”, AND giving those regular feedbacks on performance for my peeps. I just hated doing that kind of work. A good leader sees everyone as being capable, and if someone was struggling with their self-esteem, I knew how to work with them, to show them how everything was easy and possible. For a couple of these teams, I have increased their productivity numbers by up to 200%.
At the age of 26, I moved to the UK where I lived for the past 8 years. Here, I had to work A LOT on my Shadow. I struggled with my self-confidence and with my expectations of how I was seen by others. For the first 2 years, even though I knew English, I feared that I couldn’t understand British.
I remember having a couple of interviews where because of my emotions I literally freaked out. Those with autism need to work a lot more on their shadow side of the mind and to go to many more interviews than others until they are able to control their emotions.
*_On top of this, you need to understand this thing about expectations and the power of belief. If we truly believe deep down that nobody would give us a chance, then our CV’s will be either “too much” or either “too less” ; They won’t be taken in consideration. Or, if from 50 jobs around, if only 10 of these jobs would give us a job, then we will probably apply on all those other 40 and miss on those 10, JUST BECAUSE deep down we truly believe that nobody would hire us._*
OK. In my first year, I also dealt with some personal problems due to a cPTSD I made for myself ever since I was 8 years old. Besides this, everything was going wrong, struggled to find even agency jobs, and for about 5, 6 months I had a MDD, Major Depressive Episode, for which I will forever be grateful because it the was only way for me to open my eyes, and to have a deep spiritual awakening. And today, I could honestly say that I found the cure for schizophrenia on myself, the condition of the century, but obviously nobody is ready to hear my truths, and I am treated just like any other conspiracy theorist. In another 10 years, this will change because if humanity wants to evolve, then this is the only way. 1000 years of tribulation shall come. I have no doubts about this.
I must confess that even though I found the answers for what schizophrenia really is, I still went through many other dark nights of the soul afterwards, and dealt with Skizm, the term I use for an awakened schizophrenia, for about 3 to 4 years until I was able to get used fully to this double life that I was living. It wasn’t easy. I call this period, the Battle of the Ego and I’m grateful today that I overcame it without having to use any kind of meds, anti-psychotics like Olanzapine. Not even meds for my ADHD, Bipolar disorder, cPTSD, BPD, depression, and anxiety. All that I ever needed was smoking weed even though this accentuated my Skizm symptoms, but at least it numbed the pain I had from my anxiety, depression and loneliness.
Let’s say that on my Shadow work, I had to go through many betrayals in order to level up my cognitive functions somehow.
In 8 years I’ve been in the UK, I still couldn’t find any decent jobs because of my inner world. I’ve done everything: cleaning jobs, warehouse ones and only a couple ones that were office based. I never had a voice because of racism mostly and this inner world I had. My expectations of what others thought about me. I loved doing every single job out there, even when I had to clean toilets because that’s the man I am. I’m not scared or disgusted of work. But it’s true that the best job that I ever had, was a fast-paced office one, where for 3 years until I had to quit because of being betrayed by my Op. Manager, it was a dream job. I was on my Skizm prime where I needed a lot of answers, and with my hyperfocus from the ADHD, I was basically having 2 jobs. All of my thoughts were syncing harmoniously with my work within the present moment. For instance, my thought: “Hmm, I need to go to the canteen to wash my cup” , the next record that I had to do Data Entry for, was: Ben Kitchen.
My initial target was 260 records / day. In my first day, I’ve done 430, and later on, I ended doing 11-1200 records every single day. Nobody was able to do half as much, and surely not with my consistency. I am a crazy workaholic. Menadel, the angel of work, is on my side. I FIND INNER PEACE THROUGH WORK.
Anyway, I had to quit that job in 2020, when I was deeply betrayed. +I didn’t have have the voice I had back home. Those numbers could’ve been even 1700 / day, if they would have listened to me. But no, let’s work with mediocrity, like retards do instead of asking for some minor IT changes, and teaching everyone the FUN in doing any type of work they have to do.
Right now, I moved back home at my old job because they needed me even though I so hate going back at any previous jobs, but at least it’s not quite the same company, it’s his “brother”, with a different Operations Manager, and totally different activities and working systems. At my old job, I was doing mortgages and credit loans, now I’m dealing with Insurances.
So yeah, these being said. I have one question for you. When will the world finally change its views?
One_life
October 15, 2023 at 11:04 am
This is no rocket science and in practice with most high skilled service sector entry level opportunities.
Grigorios Panselinas
October 15, 2023 at 12:28 pm
Beautiful said Nikos, this is an incredible video about Resumes. I also share the same sentiment. I would love to see more talks from you about other important subjects that involves the hiring process such as job interviews and how should one approach those.
Ken Crawford
October 15, 2023 at 1:31 pm
The worst trend in resumes is that they have become considered mandatory elements of application, even for jobs requiring no prior experience or specific skills. When I was young nobody ever considered preparing a resume for entry-level unskilled labor, because it is impossible to list nonexistent qualifications. The hiring process should leverage to greatest advantage standardization and customization of requirements, and the data should be available in a database, not via arbitrarily chosen prose and vague, often ambiguous or deceptive keywords. More customized specific analysis of qualifications should occur in a refinement phase of the application process, but no phase should be arbitrary or subjective. Interviews also frequently select for extraneous factors, and may serve little purpose. Most of standard hiring protocols are arbitrary, inefficient, and obsolete.
Dylan Buchman
October 16, 2023 at 1:46 am
👏👏👏👏👏
Rogerio Rodrigues
October 16, 2023 at 7:04 am
👍
Real News 445
October 16, 2023 at 1:57 pm
There has to be more meat to the bone to make sense. His solutions seem half hearted.
Christian Herrmann
October 16, 2023 at 3:55 pm
Hey but the solution is a heck ton of work for the applicants, with the vast majority (all but one) don’t get a return for their time invested. Yes, also the hiring company has lot more work ,but they get a real return of investment. If the companies don’t use several rounds of intelligent screening with little time needed in each round, I would consider them disrespectful of my time. Because even if I would be a perfect fit (in my eyes) for a position, there is always some luck involved regardless of the ‘new’ way is used or not.
I mean, just start with a very simple questionnaire to preselect ppl you would like to know more about? Imagine you were asked to record a video, you would be expected to explain why you love their company,why you would fit (without even knowing anything about the company culture 🙄) . Sorry, but that’s too much , and don’t pretend an HR assistant would really watch all of them, from maybe hundreds of applicants? Nah, come on…
Christian Herrmann
October 16, 2023 at 3:59 pm
Am asking myself why he didn’t even give examples of how alternative approaches were successfully implemented, successful not only for the company (did they get a bigger application pool, a better candidate? Compared to with the old system) ,but also the applicants? If you annoy them, you might only get desperate,less qualified ppl?
Luke Puplett
October 17, 2023 at 9:41 am
Some parts of society progress one funeral at a time. I have my CV in HTML, because I’m a web developer. This 30 year old technology is cutting edge to almost every recruiter I’ve ever sent it to. They can just about handle a PDF but really they want a Word document, which is a Microsoft proprietary format for printing on paper from the 1980s.
The whole thing is wild. I tried to tackle part of the problem by building Zipwire, an app which replaces timesheets with text and WhatsApp messages (and AI) but I’ve realised years into this journey that I’m selling to people who can’t see a problem with emailing Word documents.
Kay Bee
October 17, 2023 at 5:04 pm
This video fell flat for me. No real new information… All the suggestions at the end already exist and are part of the Interview process…
Resumes serve an important purpose.
My resume is stellar… I wrote it myself, it includes all the key words for the AI bots and has an active hyperlink to my LinkedIn for those reviewing it electronically.
Last round of job hunting… I applied for 5 jobs, got call backs for 4 and interviewed at 2.
And I don’t have a college degree…
My resume still serves as a powerful tool. I often reference it during interviews, as do most interviewers…
I’m always team ‘out with the old and in with the new’… But this just seems like we’re reaching for something to whine about.
RomeoC
October 18, 2023 at 11:21 pm
And now you get people using chatGpt to write their application and resume….that’s even worse because the AI does not write the same way you do…..