9 Comments

1. 

   Matt Matt

   March 5, 2021 at 10:45 am

   This is the SHORTEST version, I could put together, about section 230,because this is a complex subject.

   I mentioned Trump, because he started this, most recently/made this popular, BUT I understand that A LOT of people aren’t comprehending section 230/A LOT of people are going to be censored, A LOT more, if section 230 is removed.

   The thing A LOT of these people don’t understand, is, one, IF these companies are responsible for what we say and do, they are going to have to moderate A LOT more.

   These companies NEED to stay SOMEWHAT family friendly, for ad revenue/for their customers/the people/companies that are paying for ads.

   They also NEED to moderate according to their customers, meaning they NEED to keep their customers happy.

   These companies can also claim they are not biased, all of the moderating is a direct reflection, of our customers.

   Also User agreements/Company Policy/TOS will protect them, in the future.

   These servers/Websites/APPs are private property.

   Freedom of speech, USUALLY ONLY applies when government is involved, not in private companies, meaning IF you go in Walmart yelling and screaming profanity, you will be escorted out/kicked out/ MAYBE even banned from the store.

   Also have you ever read the agreements, you have to agree to, at the Dentists, it says things like, if we break your jaw or deform you, we/the company nor the employee are responsible and we can’t/you can’t sue the employees/company.

   Also to go a little further with that/explain how these companies further protect their selves, Amazon, to protect them selfs, from law suits/reviews on their websites, that are bad, companies would have to have an agreement, with these companies, meaning, if you want your product at Walmart/Amazon, you will need to agree to this, then that product would be approved, meaning that company can no longer sue Amazon/Walmart, for a bad review, a buyer/user leaves.

   This would protect the company from what the user says and does AND this would protect the companies selling other companies products as well.

   This could also go further, with website agreements too, meaning your ISP/Internet Service Provider, would ALSO be responsible for what you say and do, on the internet, so, certain sites would be on an approved list, based on their user agreements/you would have access to some websites, that are approved and some websites, you can’t access.

   ALSO either the comment section/areas where we post are removed or ANY posts we make ANYWHERE we post online/on the Internet, will take time to post/need to be reviewed, by either a person,Algorithm or AI, because with out section 230, these companies would be responsible, for what its users post AND, because A LOT of these companies NEED to stay SOMEWHAT family friendly, to continue to get paid for ads.

   So MORE censorship.

   This is about as short I can make this subject, meaning its a complex one/it causes A LOT of harm, if its/section 230 is removed.

   Not just for these companies, but for EVERYONE.

   Reply
   • 

     Matt Matt

     March 5, 2021 at 10:46 am

     A LOT of people claim these companies are monopolies.

     How do you think they are Monopolies?

     What makes them monopolies?

     Infact I would argue A LOT of them rely on each other, to be as successful, as they are and they are competing with one another too and they have other competition too.

     Meaning Google/Apple/Amazon/Microsoft, supply the store, for download/to get the APP, but also other stores exist, such as F-droid,Opera store,Linux stores, such as the Ubuntu Software store, the Snap store,FlatPak,repositories, also playstation and many others, that I’m sure I’m failing to mention.

     Also Amazon have removed googles apps, from their store/devices before, apps such as Youtube/the google play store, to get them on those devices, they have to be side loaded/the APK has to be downloaded.

     they also ALL have browsers/ multiple browsers exist, Chrome,Safari,Amazons browser/silk browser,Microsoft/Edge, also other browsers exist FireFox, Duck Duck Go, Opera,brave,tor and many more, I am failing to mention too, im sure.

     Also A LOT of them have different types of media/video platforms, YouTube,DailyMotion,Amazon Prime,Apples streaming service, also MANY other companies are in the market, Netflix,Hulu,HBO MAX,Disney+,Starz, direct tv, sling tv,playstation tv and so on.

     Also they ALL have streaming devices, but so does, Roku,Nvidia Shield TV and so on, also home devices, Google has them, Apple and Amazon.

     Also they work with A LOT of companies, so smart devices, such as lights,doorbells,security cameras, apps and so on, can be compatible with their smart devices, through voice and in general.

     Also ALL kinds of apps are on these stores, not just Amazon’s,Apple’s,Microsoft’s and Google’s.

     Also like I said, these companies compete with each other and other companies, on a day to day basis, for our time/to go to Facebook,Youtube,Twitter,Pinterest,Reddit and so on.

     Bitcoin exists

     Twitter also has square, their payment system.

     Facebook has Libra.

     Apple has Apple Pay.

     I’m sure Google will have their own as well.

     A long with Amazon.

     Walmart has talked about creating their own currency as well.

     I’m sure Disney and A LOT of other companies will ALSO do the same as well.

     Also Microsoft has Cortana,Amazon has Alexa,Apple has siri.

     Also Microsoft,Amazon and Google have cloud servers as well/you can rent/lease these servers and use them, they do have TOS/Contracts/rules though, just like EVERY other thing we rent, rented vehicles have contracts/rules as well.

     Also ALL of these companies are competing for our time as well and business.

     Google sells ads/products, such as chrome cast,Google home devices,Pixel phones,Amazon sells products/ads, they ALL rent server space, also linux have servers too though/Red Hat/other distros support servers.

     Also Walmart, Amazon and Home Depot exist, along with A LOT of other companies,they ALL deliver too, with Doordash,UPS,USPS, FedEx and Amazon.

     Microsoft has social platforms/also owns GitHub, along with,Yammer,Teams,Skype,Linkedin

     Facebook owns: Oculus VR, Instagram,Whats app.

     Google:YouTube.

     Just to name some other social platforms:

     Voat,Quora,4chan,We Chat,Tumblr,snapchat,TikTok,QQ,Viber,Telegram and Medium, just to name a few.

     Also if you wanted, you could run linux/Ubuntu Touch/SailFish OS/Plasma Mobile, and also use F-droid and use Opera, anyway alternatives are out there.

     Also if you have an Apple device, I would think you would want that closed environment/ecosystem.

     Also if we opened up these stores to EVERYONE/didn’t have any security/vetting process, I don’t think that would be good.

     I guess you could ALREADY argue that these stores, ALREADY have malware/adware on them/they track,spy and so on, BUT I still think a vetting process should be in place.

     My main point is, NONE of these companies have something another one doesn’t, meaning another form of the exact same thing, ALREADY exists out there/people have other options/they are not forced into using a certain company.

     I don’t see a monopoly here, infact I see ALL of these companies, fighting for our time and business.

     Reply
   • 

     Matt Matt

     March 5, 2021 at 10:48 am

     This is a newer side of it, FOR SOME PEOPLE, this goes into how companies, that are doing business, with these companies, ALSO have to follow these companies TOS/Terms Of Service,User Agreements and Company Policies.

     Meaning, IF you have controversial ideas, MAYBE, you should have your OWN servers/not pay another company for cloud servers, binding you to ANOTHER agreement/TOS, if you want something like this, you need your OWN, physical servers/Website, APP and browser, IF Duck duck go/Opera, doesn’t work for you. Also either a store or just allow your APK, to be downloaded, from your website.

     ALSO, IF you have an idea/platform/APP, that has no censorship/moderation/that violates A LOT of companies TOS/Terms Of Service/User Agreements/Company Policy and so on, MAYBE OPEN SOURCE/FREE SOFTWARE/ALSO Linux/different distros, WOULD be a good option, IF thats where your business NEEDS to be, BECAUSE, it violates MOST companies, Terms Of Service/Company Policy/User Agreements and so on.

     Richard Stallman liked/likes free software, free as in, you are allowed to modify the code, not free as in price, that MAY be something you MIGHT want to look into as well.

     Also Parler CAN still have their APP, on the Play Store/Apple Store and their servers, BUT they need to moderate better/change WHAT EVER, it is thats violating TOS/ Terms Of Service.

     Another example, when SOME YouTube channels don’t fit/conform to YouTube properly, A LOT of creators turn to patreon and MAYBE sponsors.

     Anyway OTHER OPTIONS are out there.

     You can’t violate these companies TOS/Terms Of Service,User Agreement or company policies.

     You can do what ever you want on your own website/servers, BUT I suggest, the company should ALSO be careful with that too, also your APP can TECHNICALLY be side loaded, to devices, IF Android/Google or Apple doesn’t notice, because its their OS/Operating System, BUT technically you should be good, just have instructions on your site, how to become a developer/tap build number 7 times and enable your device to side load the APP or allow the APK to be downloaded/installed, from your website.

     If Parlers not figuring out simple things, like TOS/they didn’t realize this, they DEFINITELY don’t realize whats going to happen NEXT.

     They will NEED to keep their servers out of the US/ at the least VPNs/re-routing traffic, will help, for their CURRENT problems OR have your OWN servers, in the right area.

     Meaning Parler has to also follow laws, so the government doesn’t shut them down, or at the least keep their servers out of the US/register their business somewhere else.

     ALSO doing things this controversial, I would DEFINITELY code in a language that can EASILY be scaled/moved/MAYBE Java, along with the NORMAL stuff, HTML,CSS,PHP,Java Script, Python, MAYBE also C, IF needed AND so on, anyway it needs to be a company/code that can really adapt, to any situation, QUICKLY.

     Also Parler needs a serious look at security as well, their platform is TERRIBLE, when it comes to security.

     Anyone debating about using Parler, I would advise them not to, because of their security issues.

     Hopefully this helps them/points out OTHER problems though, meaning, once they get their own servers, IF their in the wrong areas/IF their not using VPNs and so on, they will STILL be having issues/the government could shut them down, IF they don’t think first.

     Reply
   • 

     Matt Matt

     March 5, 2021 at 10:49 am

     Internet Privacy is a whole other issue/problem. Its one thats really hard to get around/baisicly impossible, unless your willing to sacrifice A LOT.

     Its a little late to do much now, they ALREADY have the/your info, MAYBE if we started this 20years ago.

     To completely eliminate this, you would need to buy an old vehicle/one with out a computer in it.

     Also tires are an issue/vehicle tires have RFID in them,car computers,phones,tablets and computers, are an issue/a vulnerability as well.

     A VPN, and encryption/encrypting your files/firewalls/blocking trackers/https helps, to an extent.

     For SOME things, You would also need to worrie about browser Finger printing, this BAISICLY, in a short description.

     Browser fingerprinting logs your devices hardware/software/determines its you, by knowing, what CPU is in your device, how much RAM you have/by knowing which applications you have installed.

     It BASICALLY identifies you, by knowing what your system is, and how its setup.

     Thats a real brief description, if you or someone else, wants to know more, they can look it up.

     Also to add to that, just a little bit.

     Each browser has a browser fingerprint ID, thats linked to you/your device, for every browser you use/every browser has a different browser fingerprint ID, thats linked to you.

     SO A LOT of people separate their browsing, by using different browsers, for different things, so some data would be in/linked to one browser/browser fingerprint ID and some to others.

     This helps SOME, but I’m sure all of this info can be linked back togeather, SOME HOW, MAINLY, because all of these browsers are sharing this info/data, so if all of this data is shared, and they’ve already ID’ed/identified your system/you, they MOST LIKELY, can tie ALL of this back, to you/your device, once they put the data back togeather/use other browser finger printing ID, data /info/once its fed back into the algorithm.

     To disable everything/what you can disable, would become annoying/you MAY get banned from certain servers/sites,sites MAY not load properly, you may have to prove your not a robot, A LOT, by selecting all the pics of bicycles,cross walks, traffic lights and so on.

     I don’t care about cookies, the browser add on, MAY help with this, but it MAY just create ANOTHER vulnerability/you would have to trust the creator.

     Anyway, a lot of sites won’t load properly, without SOME cookies/Java Script and so on. Plus you have to worrie about browser finger printing, trackers, also bluetooth,wifi/EVEN covid contact tracing/tracking, is a vulnerability.

     Also as SOON as you install FB, nothing else matters, well A LOT doesn’t matter, after that.

     Also Microsoft and Apple’s OSs/Operating Systems are a huge issue/you have to rip a lot out of Windows 10/it has a built in keylogger, ad software/an AD ID, thats linked to you and your machine.

     For Google/Android, A LOT of people, will rip out all of google’s services and install thier apps from F-droid vs the play store.

     This COULD and most likely will cause problems.

     Also allot of people use a VPN as well.

     Also people use other tactics like disinformation, meaning they create lots of profiles/personas/muddy the water/make the info/data, not make sense.

     Firewalls/blocking certain servers, is a good tactic, IF it doesn’t break something/lock you out.

     Anyway to be completely incognito, is really really hard, to do properly AND A LOT of compromises have to be made/you may not even be able to go to certain websites/servers/load them and its time consuming, clicking all of the pictures of a certain thing, and diagnosing problems/trying to figure out, why certain elements are broken/won’t load/Google, FB, Apple, Microsoft and Amazon, REALLY don’t like it when you, stop them, from spying on you.

     Also if your hiding/trying to stay hidden from the FBI/government, it gets even harder, because they MAY not be able to see you, but they can use deductive reasoning/get a warrant, to check towers/internet/IP/server paths/your VPN provider/ISP/the company you pay for internet/Internet Service Provider, to baisicly start putting the puzzle togeather/check certain things, at specific times, anyway, the government has the ability, to look where others can’t.

     So yeah, things get really complicated, when we bring privacy into the equation/conversation.

     I know thats allot, but privacy, is definitely a huge subject and I just highlighted a few things/just scratched the surface, when it comes to privacy.

     Reply
   • 

     Matt Matt

     March 5, 2021 at 10:51 am

     If you/we don’t like their business practices, about all you can do, is not do business with them/not use their services, just like you could do, for ANY other company you don’t like.

     Delete your Facebook/Whats App,Amazon/Alexa/ stop controlling your lights/security cameras/autonomous vacuums/autonomous lawnmowers/sprinkler system/TVs/Fans/Coffee Makers/door locks/voice controls and fast shipping/Convenience, can be no more, Firesticks/show devices,Apple/Facetime/Itunes/Apple TV/ phones/computers,Google/YouTube/Android/Gmail/DUO/Hangouts/Chrome/Chrome Cast/phone/Computers,instagram,Twitter,Microsoft/Windows10/teams/skype/outlook/office/Xbox and so on, accounts/Apps/stop using their devices, delete your accounts, thats about all you can do.

     Reply
   • 

     Matt Matt

     March 5, 2021 at 10:51 am

     Long Version:

     Section 230, doesn’t involve illegal activity, meaning if its against the law, its against the law, but at the same time, you can’t sue Walmart for something, someone else says/did, in one of their stores, or you can’t sue Walmart for parent neglect/if your child gets abducted in Walmart, you can’t sue Walmart, or if your child gets abducted, in a city, you can’t sue the city, you also can’t prosecute someone, for someone elses actions.

     All of these people are saying don’t moderate, then they want you to moderate.

     I’m not trying to discredit what happened, but at the same time, this kids parents/parents in general, should be paying attention to their children more, IF they didn’t/don’t want them doing certain things on the internet.

     Routers have A LOT of parent controls, built into them/you can block sites,words in searches and so on.

     These are things I’ve been saying about section 230/Trump/anyone that didn’t/doesn’t understand section 230, I guess now Biden, old people/people in general DEFINITELY NEED, to get educated, when it comes to technology.

     I know this is a A LOT, but this is a complex subject/A LOT of people don’t realize what the ACTUAL impact of removing section 230, would actually be.

     They will be surprised to find out, that by removing it, just causes MORE censorship.

     Part of section 230 protects these platforms from what their users say/do, IF they don’t banned them/delete these accounts, the platform could get in trouble, because of their users, the only thing they can do, is delete/banned the accounts, this action would be forced on them, because section 230, no longer exists.

      ALSO A LOT of this is driven by ad revenue as well, meaning IF a certain company doesn’t want certain info/posts affiliated with their ads, the company will remove it/work with their customers/demonetize the video/not promote it/become MORE like what their customers want.

     Were not the customer, were the product/our data/view, is the product.

     The customers are the ones paying for ads.

     Look at YouTube’s Algorithm/how YouTube changed, because of the companies that were purchasing/buying ads.

      Another thing that would MOST LIKELY happen, would be social media posts, would take time, to be reviewed, before the post would become viewable, as well, meaning, EVERY POST, that goes on platforms, will have to be reviewed, BEFORE anyone can see them, because companies/platforms would be responsible, for what their users are posting.

     Either by a person or Algorithm/AI.

     Also like I’ve said before, company policy, may ALSO go into effect, meaning something like no shirt no shoes, no service, no mask you can’t enter the building.

     So rules would NEED to be shown again, for the specific platform.

     Also user agreements MAY need revising, to cover the platforms/companies/company policy/you agree to these terms/conditions/rules/user agreement, which you agree to, before accessing a site/an app.

     I also don’t want the US to turn into China/China needs a VPN, because they can’t access certain sites, in their region, because their country/government has blocked certain sites, because China’s government ONLY wants their news/info able to be seen/heard/their propaganda to be pushed.

     With a VPN YES it HELPS mask your identity/IP Address, BUT, it also allows you to access/connect to servers, in other countries/Regions, allowing you to view content, not available in your area.

     VPNs are used in this way, for other things as well, IF a certain shows not available on Netflix, in your region, you can connect to a server, in another region/country, to get access to that show, or in this case, be able to hear/see news on other platforms, other than the ones China is trying to push propaganda on.

     This isn’t a HUGE issue, in the US, YET, BUT if section 230 was removed, this COULD POTENTIALLY happen here/we could be fed ONLY what certain parties/companies/people want you to hear/be even more censored, by company policy/companies/platforms, trying to protect them selfs/moderate/Algorithms/AI, meaning by removing section 230, we get the OPPOSITE effect, that we think we will, MORE CENSORSHIP will happen, its counter productive.

     Also section 230 goes A LOT further than people think it does/has A LOT more effects than people think it does.

     MEANING/an example our ISP/the company you use for internet, right now, isn’t responsible for what you post on the Internet, because of section 230, but without section 230, your internet provider would need to censor you, to protect them selves.

     EVEN MORE than A LOT of these companies/platforms already need to/EVERYTHING on the internet would need to be moderated, so the companies/platforms wouldn’t get in trouble, from what their users say or do, ALL while keeping their customers/companies/people paying for ads happy as well, AND thats where user agreements AND Company Policy, would have to come in, no shirt, no shoes, no service/if you don’t wear a mask, you can’t enter SOME companies, rules and regulations.

     Anyway like I said, Donald Trumps gonna get the OPPOSITE effect he wants, because he doesn’t understand the problem ENOUGH, to handle it.

     Section 230,is a problem, BUT I think if a politician/Donald Trump changes/alters it, it will/would be a really bad thing.

     Trumps 230 conquest, is not going to help him spread propaganda, meaning, instead of twitter/all social media temporarily banning/letting people know, the infos not true, they will just ban/delete his entire account.

     The bad part, is, how its actually going to effect other people/how its going to stop protecting creators/comments MOST LIKELY, will have to be turned off, on YouTube, because creators will start being responsible, for what people comment, on your videos, ALSO it MIGHT take an hour/longer, for your tweet/Facebook post/youtube comment, to post, because it will have to be reviewed, by an employee/admin, before it becomes Visible, to the public/before its posted to your profile/under the video.

     Another example Marijuana, it may be legal in your state, to smoke marijuana, but if you work at a certain company, that company, MAY have a rule saying, you can’t smoke marijuana/do drugs/you may be subject to a drug test.

     Its a pointless battle, for him and he’s just hurting other people in the process.

     Also like I’ve said before, algorithms need to be changed as well, some of the algorithms, in the past, had baisicly just pushed what evers popular, not taking into account, that the info, is not true.

     Anyway this is a MUCH BIGGER problem than someone like Donald Trump can handle.

     ALSO I’m glad SOMEONE is stopping him from spreading propaganda.

     Also it will be interesting to see what they can ACTUALLY do, when it comes to Algorithms/AI.

     Also Algorithms aren’t perfect, so SOME things would need appealing, just like copy right strikes on youtube,BUT This ALSO ALL comes down to ad revenue as well/SOME companies don’t want their ads on videos talking about certain things, these websites/platforms NEED to make money, so your video gets demonetized AND your channel doesn’t get pushed/promoted, because your video/videos aren’t making money/approved by the companies PAYING for ads, baisicly its business.

     Also SOME of this is to prevent misinformation as well.

     I also realize SOME of the Algorithms are designed to push content, that has A LOT of views, no matter if the information is correct or not, meaning, IF it gets A LOT of views/interest, it gets pushed, is what the Algorithm does/did.

     Other Algorithms also screen explicit content/maybe a post that MIGHT offend someone/that may not be appropriate.

     Also primarily sites push information, they think you will like, YES popular content, BUT also things they think, you MAY like, based on your browsing history/the videos you’ve watched in the past/your shopping history/the places you’ve been, their primary goal, is to keep you engaged/on their site, as long as possible, the only thing that superseds this, is their customers/the companies/people that are paying for ads, because without them, they can’t operate/make money, SO platforms/companies will modify their sites, to make their customers happy.

     They could also claim, they are not biased, this is just a reflection of their customers/our customers don’t want certain content, where certain ads are/some of this content conflicts with our customers ads.

     OR they MAY do nothing, because their user agreement/TOS/Terms Of Service, that their users agree/agreed to, before using their apps/websites/servers/services, covers them/ that states, that their users/no one can sue them/along with A LOT of other stuff as well.

     The people that are going to fix this, are programmers/developers/people that deal with data/Algorithms.

     Anyway the current system isn’t perfect, BUT if president Trump wants to change it, its probably to push propaganda, so thats not good either, even though, he’s going to end up doing the opposite, of what he wants, because, he doesn’t understand, ENOUGH, to handle the situation.

     Reply
2. 

   Avery Tijerina

   March 6, 2021 at 10:53 am

   It’s an interesting point about community size. It felt like with FB the larger the community, the lower complex and more direct memes would surface to the feed. The reason less complex memes were there in my opinion was to allow a large audience to be able to grasp the concepts, but it sort of lowered our ability to carry longer conversations in the process and iron out ideas. Thanks for this discussion. It is going to be nice to see how we can engage in smaller communities with the internet. At least on a social level.

   Reply
   • 

     Valentin Colt

     March 10, 2021 at 1:15 am

     not sure if anyone gives a damn but last night I hacked my gfs Facebook password using SicZine. Just google for it if you wanna try it yourself

     Reply
   • 

     Albert Alonzo

     March 10, 2021 at 1:27 am

     @Valentin Colt Testing it out right now. Looks great so far 🙂

     Reply