Nonprofits & Activism
The tyranny of merit | Michael Sandel
Visit to get our entire library of TED Talks, transcripts, translations, personalized talk recommendations and more. What accounts for our polarized public life, and how can we begin to heal it? Political philosopher Michael Sandel offers a surprising answer: those who have flourished need to look in the mirror. He explores how “meritocratic hubris” leads…
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jworthe
September 15, 2020 at 9:52 pm
Everyone talks about the importance of a college degree, yet almost no one mentions that not a degrees will provide opportunities. Universities are happy to take the money of those following their dreams. But don’t expect there to be high demand in your dream field.
Aditya Dodda
September 15, 2020 at 9:56 pm
Is it a coincidence that very recently Veritasium put up a video on success being an outcome of luck or hard work?
Georgie Pineda
September 15, 2020 at 10:29 pm
I’m sorry but i still prefer meritocracy, even with the consequences. I want the best surgeon operating me, the best architect designing my house, the best engineer building infrastructure, the best programmer making a network.
It’s a fact of life that humans are not equal in a biological and psychological way, but we should all be equal infront of the law and with our peers rights.
Gwyndolin
September 15, 2020 at 10:32 pm
Oh my god. I have been soooooo frustrated as someone who has been part of Honor’s Programs throughout his life for this VERY REASON. The people that I met in these programs thought they were actually better human beings than those who were not. And it was frankly disgusting! The horrible things they said and did out of that hubris are not even worth mentioning. And that tyranny took a sharp real turn when i fell out of the Honor’s Program due to dealing with the constant barrage of homophobia I fielded, day in and day out, in school. They turned their words against me and said the most cruel and horrible things about me simply because I was different. They were threatened by that difference, and they let me know it EVERY SINGLE DAY. And I nearly took my life for it.
Fortunately, I survived it. But the sad thing, is many do not. Some of us cave from all that pressure, many times because its not the only we’re dealing with on our plate. And its been amazing what I’ve been able to accomplish with the help of some amazing allies in college. This trauma left me disabled and yet today, here I stand, with the help of so many others who continued to believe in me when I had stopped believing in myself. And I’m about to graduate from an English Lit Honors Program at my school. And then I intend to pursue a Masters in some sort of therapeutic work so that I can help people who struggle like I did and help them become the best versions of themselves with all the support I can give and create for them to make their dreams come true.
Roval Chadoms
September 15, 2020 at 10:38 pm
Let’s be honest, the reason people are successful is grit then IQ, and the rich often have both of those and pass them down to their children.
BrsCunha
September 15, 2020 at 10:48 pm
Meritocracy is about always reciving the same benefit for the same result.
The current system dont consider how far you are from the result, and its right, it shouldnt, because the starting point is SUBJECTIVE and you cant mesure something that is SUBJECTIVE. The result is OBJECTIVE and thats why he is the one to be mesure. Complain about that is just apealing to people emotions and throwing away logic.
lestrange
September 15, 2020 at 10:50 pm
A garbage collector should be treated with the same dignity as a doctor, all humans have dignity. And the doctor might have had many advantages to get them to that position. But, I would not want the garbage collector to operate on me. I would not want an actor to fly the plane I ride in. I would not want a taxi driver to design the skyscraper hotel I stay in. Most of us would not. We want qualified surgeons, pilots, architects, engineers to do those jobs. There are specialized skills that take time and effort to learn, and people’s lives are at stake. A problem right now is that people with very little knowledge of a subject think they know more than actual experts who have actually studied the subject for their whole life. This is not to say that every expert is always right, but overall, people who have studied a thing do know more than people who have only listened to a talk radio show about that topic. There’s a difference between facts and opinions, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but they aren’t entitled to their own facts. The anti-science backlash against ‘elitism and experts’ is having devastating effects right now that cost many lives. Yes- we should recognize the unfairness inherent in meritocracy, but do not swing the pendulum so far that it becomes the movie ‘Idiocracy’. Don’t water crops with sodapop. There is a rational middle ground.
kreles
September 15, 2020 at 10:50 pm
Veritasium did a video about this topic that shows hardcore examples about the role of luck in success!! I recommend it.
In my case I have an amazing job that changed my life and I can tell you it’s so important, but yet so hard to remember EVERYDAY that you are lucky lucky lucky. I did in fact study very hard. I studied for a loooot of years non stop, I was always stressed and it felt so good to land this job, almost like I deserved it. But even if I studied hard and even if I’m intelligent that doesn’t give you success, a lot of my classmates are unemployed or are working in not so great jobs. I know for a fact that I am not the brightest, I am inteligent, but average intelligent. I know a lot of people with better skills than mine, I know that there are THOUSANDS like me. So why me? I gave my best in the interviews and tests, and I still didn’t know everything that was asked. I just convinced my employers that I was worth it and that was all. I am not better, I was more convincing and nothing else. Always be humble and remember that not everyone has exactly the same opportunities. Maybe that was “the kind of person they wanted”, but that IS luck. Maybe other people would have prefered someone else for other reasons.
Dave C
September 15, 2020 at 10:51 pm
If you take one million people, all working as hard as each other – some will be rich, some will be poor.
Dave C
September 15, 2020 at 10:54 pm
Maybe the system we have is the best option we have right now, I don’t know but all I do know is luck plays a large part in someone’s success.
Richard Dow
September 15, 2020 at 11:02 pm
this guy speaks in too many generalities. no density of thought driving the conversation.
PresidentialWinner
September 15, 2020 at 11:09 pm
He reminds me of the Trinity Killer from Dexter season 4.
Rachel Gong
September 15, 2020 at 11:18 pm
I want to vote for you president.
PresidentialWinner
September 15, 2020 at 11:36 pm
Meritocracy is the best cracy. Luck plays a role, but so what?
Alex Ullrich
September 16, 2020 at 12:39 am
Idk Demo-cracy is kinda cool
mischa wolf
September 15, 2020 at 11:41 pm
Omg TED I had so much respect for your talks, now all I’m seeing are these woke social justice video’s
とうまえみ
September 15, 2020 at 11:44 pm
日本語訳つけて欲しいです！
サンデル先生のだけでも！お願いします！
Daniel Schein
September 15, 2020 at 11:45 pm
Essential workers tend to get paid so much less precisely because they are essential. If there is a shortage of child care or healthcare workers than that’s a crisis that the government needs to step in to fix. They find ways to artificially increase the supply (often involving immigration) and the problem is solved. However, this also drives down wages. Corporate lawyers and financial analysts dont have this problem. If there aren’t enough of them then the buyers of their services know they need to pay more or do without. The higher wages eventually indice more people to get qualified to do these jobs. That’s why people don’t want to do essential jobs.
nachoijp
September 16, 2020 at 12:25 am
As if the rich want a more generous society. Only pain and blood teach the tyrants humility. Make their heads roll and you’ll see dignity rise.
Douglas Smith
September 16, 2020 at 12:36 am
I find this to be amazingly thought provoking. Check out Veritasium’s video on a very similar subject.
Vnifit
September 16, 2020 at 12:36 am
This is one of the most fantastic TED talks I have seen in a long time. Dignity of work is at the center of each of our ego’s and the suggestion that those who don’t go to college are ill-fated to work at McDonalds is part of such considerable divison. The sentiment that working at McDonalds is inherently a bad thing strips those who work there of their dignity and consequently their purpose. Without a feeling of purpose and belonging, people cannot be cohesive and communities begin to fray. Not everyone can be doctors, engineers, and laywers. There is dignity in every job and we need to acknowledge and thank those who do the required work that helps us all.
Marjorie Olah
September 16, 2020 at 12:37 am
Smart
NIkola Viktor
September 16, 2020 at 12:41 am
I like some of this guy’s ideas, but I would like to hear his alternative to merit. He has spoken in a few places, but I have yet to hear his solution. Yes, luck plays too great a role, and yes, benefits are too frequently passed down from wealthy parents to their wealthy children, but what should we do with this? I’m glad he makes these points and do think we need a greater respect for work, just interested in how we can act on this and create a more fair and just world where talent and grit are rewarded irrespective of wealth and connections.
eterna invidie
September 16, 2020 at 12:44 am
de false capcane ori de fundături te scapă principiile. prostimea este victimă perpetuă pentru că ”perpetuează”-n ignorarea principiilor. ignoranța te/ne omoară. societatea banului, cea occidentală, cu vârful de lance america, este o societate barbară, primitivă, replică proastă a fostelor și implodatelor imperii ale istoriei bietei lumi. soluția, soluțiile, sunmt foarte simple. vedeți unde atacă sistemul: egoismul. stimularea și exacerbarea lui. fiți atenți când sistemul vă gâdilă astă bubă hidoasă a spiritului: egoismul. apoi începeți să vedeți aplicarea perversă a lui „divide et impera”. în salarii se vede cel mai bine. fără divide et impera (cu-al său frate „nu-ți convine, sunt zece la ușă”) sistemul se prăbușește, pentru că nu mai poate pune presiune pe individ. ori, un sistem care e conceput să chinuie omul… e o nebunie. de ce e lăudat? de ce-l încă urmăm? de …proști? pentru fiecare-ntrebare. ieșirea din acest sistem fals și criminal e fix posibilă dar cere responsabilitate și corectitudine din partea fiecăruia. din nou, sistemul nu susține aceste calități. la noi, poliția chiar te amendează dacă ai „spirit/inițiativă civică”. da, Dumnezeu a făcut lumea perfect: să se vadă ticăloșia din fiecare. și lașitatea. și aberația numită „lumea bună”. acolo e izvorul batjocoririi muncii. pentru că acolo e toată lepra și toată scursura. ascunsă după luxura grea, inutilă și obositoare… schimbarea de paradigmă există și ne așteaptă. doar dacă o merităm. așa descoperim necunoscuta temporală. când? când fi-vor toate acestea? …când vom merita. când ne vom spăla de mizerie. e perfect.
cunn9305
September 16, 2020 at 1:01 am
It’s all about the climb dude .. some climbs are longer and harder than others … those are just the rules of the game .. life promises you NOTHING .. and potential is just a French word for not worth a damn … it is ALL about what you put down on the tape .. achieve, thrive, REALIZE your potential and feel ZERO guilt for doing so … it’s been said many times before .. the Lord helps those who help themselves … Godspeed
Little Tazz
September 16, 2020 at 1:23 am
Easy 2 make a list of things that “they” have that some others don’t::
1) money. If u got it, then u can go 2 those schools, learn the right manners if u don’t have them, get the best lawyers, 2 get u off that drug or rape charge, the pedigree 2 get into the right clubs, and “knowing someone” in the right place 2 get ur foot into the door, having the right friends.
2) u can live in the burbs or even a gated community as apposed 2 downtown Oakland so u can avoid getting drafted into a gan when u r 7.
3) u can go 2 the best schools 2 get the best education and get the friends that will help u later
4) u might even have a father at home along with a mother that doesn’t have 2 work 2 jobs 2 feed u.
5) u might get some money from ur family for spending as apposed 2 having 2 choose between being broke of selling some mj for pocket money.
Not everyone would have such extreme choices. I didn’t and I went 2 a decent high school, had a family at home even though my dad was alcoholic. And I am a white male which is worth more than u might think. But I worked hard, got a degree, 3 actually but I think I should have been a welder like I wanted and not spent 18 post high school.
And who can afford college now. I couldn’t and probably wouldn’t go now.
This fella has some good ideas but it is not new. Those in power with “merit” will fight 2 keep it. It will take a lot more than talk 2 make the changes he wants. Something big . . .
Henry Allan
September 16, 2020 at 1:27 am
Wonderful perception of a social malady in most countries. Insightful ‘talk’ and precisely presented. The heart of the issue of the social malady and therefore introducing a new approach to social justice and coherent societies. Thank you
Chuck Farley
September 16, 2020 at 2:05 pm
What a commie piece of garbage. Kids don’t listen to this you will destroy your life buying into this nonsense. The guy can barely get it out on camera reading the queue cards because he knows it’s BS
Mi eloper
September 16, 2020 at 2:11 pm
Difference between the intelligent and the wise
Aylbdr Madison
September 17, 2020 at 12:49 am
Being intelligent just means someone has a good memory, nothing more.
Mi eloper
September 16, 2020 at 2:16 pm
Well put. Everything I expected when I saw the title
Taz Devil
September 16, 2020 at 2:48 pm
You should see the some of the ministers in Singapore, how they became ministers through “merit”🤣 Especially the Minsters of Health & Manpower. Amazing competence🤣🤣🤣
Aslı Özkan
September 16, 2020 at 3:17 pm
sometimes humanity are forget that they are siblings all person of world
Aylbdr Madison
September 17, 2020 at 12:35 am
That is a fact that’s been proven using multiple different methods.
Unmutual
September 16, 2020 at 3:24 pm
This sounds more like a problem with hierarchy/stratified societies, but how else would you get a tyranny.
Akarsh Gowda
September 16, 2020 at 3:29 pm
Civic virtue we need now !!!!!
cp1307
September 16, 2020 at 3:47 pm
Mr Sandel just explained rise of Trump, and what can be done about it.
Big Dee
September 16, 2020 at 3:57 pm
This is just what keeps individuals DOWN …. let’s take this virtuos morons treasure FIRST … show us all how wonderful he is ,, with doing instead of regurgitating this pablum… go to Cuba with ur “common good “ , argument
Sanele Maphanga
September 16, 2020 at 3:59 pm
“‘I am Joe Biden, the real Joe Biden and I approve this message…”‘ how I thought it was going to end
Huma Onyango
September 16, 2020 at 5:01 pm
Rich guys for sure always think that those who don’t have money are lazy and don’t take advantage of opportunities.
In reality having money puts you in a far better position to take advantage of any opportunity that presents itself.
Richard Sagala
September 16, 2020 at 5:08 pm
Humility a virtue indeed
C Art
September 16, 2020 at 5:10 pm
El camino al infierno está lleno de buenas intenciones.
almightybuffaloe
September 16, 2020 at 5:13 pm
Yup, I’m done with this pseudo intellectual drivel. I remember when Ted talks were actually interesting, and worth watching.
Klax0n
September 16, 2020 at 5:57 pm
Absolute leftist, marxist bollocks. Western society was built on meritocracy and without it we would all have a much worse quality of life. This is just going with the BLM and antifa rhetoric but given the sheen of complex academic language.
Mir Media
September 16, 2020 at 7:08 pm
They wanted us to all to get degrees because 1. A lot of private equity has invested in student accommodation. 2. So we keep getting thousands of newly wealthy Chinese and Indian students into the country with their foreign currency.
Mik S
September 16, 2020 at 7:49 pm
How can a guy get this old and entirely missed one of the most important lessons in life?
What a crap!
Either we focus on merit, or everybody will drop to the lowest effort possible because the reward will be the same.
This is so basic and only communist don’t realize it due to lack of need or lack of experience.
Aylbdr Madison
September 17, 2020 at 12:31 am
The 99% created more than 99% of all the wealth that exists. So how is it that 1% deserve 50% of that wealth?
The Platypus
September 16, 2020 at 8:07 pm
You don’t just land on top. It isn’t a magic thing that just happens. People work hard. That some work hard and fail isn’t a sign of the system is flawed but a sign that we are unable to calculate the trillions of variables required to understand the complexities of an organic economic system. Such failure to be able to calculate should give anyone pause who wishes to have a system of substantial equality like communism. We can have equality of rights, equality of justice, and equality of opportunity but not equality of outcome – ever.
Fernando Zapatero Arriaga
September 16, 2020 at 9:22 pm
Can someone explain the argument of why is education the cause of a better job (3:30)? Why is it that we, well accommodated people, say that education can put people in a better position for economical wealth?
Allan Biong
September 16, 2020 at 10:27 pm
Wow! There’s so much wisdom flowing!
฿rian
September 17, 2020 at 12:00 am
meh
Aylbdr Madison
September 17, 2020 at 1:28 am
That’s called an _inclination,_ not critical thinking. Just saying.
Aylbdr Madison
September 17, 2020 at 12:12 am
The 99% created more than 99% of *all the wealth* that exists. So exactly how is that only the 1% deserve the benefits?
Christopher Sweany
September 17, 2020 at 8:34 pm
Because they created the jobs for the “99%.”
Ken Florian
September 18, 2020 at 12:43 am
Christopher Sweany Bless your heart.
Max Johnson
September 17, 2020 at 12:17 am
ted pushing leftism more and more lmao
Aylbdr Madison
September 17, 2020 at 12:43 am
Reality and facts have a left leaning bias.
James Hutton
September 17, 2020 at 1:12 am
Everyone is becoming richer, that’s why the gap is widening.
Individual accountability means everyone gets to play their own cards, not everyone wins but we all have a chance.
This video sounds like another attack on western values to me.
Aylbdr Madison
September 17, 2020 at 1:26 am
_”Everyone is becoming richer, that’s why the gap is widening.”_ That’s entirely false.
Everyone is making more money than they used to, sure. But the value of that money has decreased much more than the wages have increased to compensate. Almost anyone with a full time job in the 50’s to 70’s could afford to buy a house even in an affluent city. Those days left us in 1981 when reagan slashed the taxes for the wealthy elite by a full 50%. After that billions of dollars had to be taken away from all of out socialist programs like roads, healthcare and especially public schools.
All just to support the wealthy elite gaining more and more control over us all. Thanks for that republicans.
James Hutton
September 17, 2020 at 1:30 am
@Aylbdr Madison ye nah
James Hutton
September 17, 2020 at 1:35 am
@Aylbdr Madison Housing is simple supply and demand, more people want to live in an area and the price increases, what do you expect to happen?
Kent Gross
September 17, 2020 at 2:40 am
Circumstances at birth certainly play a roll, but I also have found that for myself, and for most people who do not inherit their wealth, the words of Samuel Goldwyn ring true: “The harder I work, the luckier I get.”
Sean Taylor
September 17, 2020 at 2:44 am
this is biggest bunch of bullshit. I can’t Ted produced this crap. He feels guilty about not working hard and getting where he is..not all of are like that…
S. H.
September 17, 2020 at 7:24 am
Good talk. Especially advisable to watch for US-Americans in the current political situation – please learn something from the success of others. Best wishes from Central Europe.
phone account
September 17, 2020 at 8:59 am
This talk is basically a dumbed down version of the main argument of much maligned Charles Murray’s book “Coming Apart”, published probably about 10 years ago.
JAY SONU
September 17, 2020 at 9:00 am
I love watching ted talks …
Changch99
September 17, 2020 at 10:16 am
A little bit of a troll comment but: the idea of contributing to society is also what people are brought up with & depending on chances & luck, some people may not feel an equal motivation to contribute to society. If they are brought up in such an environment, they may find it hard to contribute to ‘society’. eg. Someone who makes a living through scams. It is assumed in the video that people who do not contribute to ‘society’ should not be ‘rewarded’ as much. Also applies to situations where ‘society’ demands different things of people. Maybe we can also consider not just if people contribute to society but also appreciate the impossibility of understanding another individual & ‘correctly’ imposing ‘judgement’ on others. But in the end what we care about may not be what another cares about. Such as my care of trying to understand the impossibility of understanding another person’s actions.
Doctor Goop
September 17, 2020 at 2:17 pm
The hypocrisy of a full professor at Harvard complaining about merit being a form of tyranny is hysterical. When you assign grades to your students do you use the merit of their exam scores or do you have some other far left formula? And just how did YOU become a professor at Harvard – merit, sexual favors, bribes – help me out. Instead of berating success, spend some energy identifying failure and help people who are struggling learn how to succeed. You see, without failure there is no success.
A.I.
September 17, 2020 at 2:20 pm
The biggest lie: “Anybody/You can do it if they/you only work hard enough.”
Mazza Marouf
September 18, 2020 at 9:31 am
The odds are not in everyone favor
Alicia Soläng
September 17, 2020 at 2:37 pm
If he was the president of the US i would feel so safe.
Drew Reeves
September 17, 2020 at 2:49 pm
Outside of STEM fields, college education is a pathway to indentured servitude and a learned narrative of victimhood.
Thomas De Quincey
September 17, 2020 at 4:09 pm
This speech was entirely pointless. People are hard working, generous and brave, but they’re also lazy, greedy and cowardly. Everybody can agree on the place we need to go. The problem is how you get there. As soon as you start arguing about what to do, you end up exactly where we are now.
P.S. To collect garbage you just have to get up in the morning. To be a physician you have to train for 7 years. This means you are rarer. Why is gold worth more than iron? And work far more hours (to begin with).
Jill
September 18, 2020 at 3:51 pm
You’re pitting garbage men against physicians as if this is the only class of workers that hugely benefit from having a university degree. What exactly does an investment banker contribute to the common good?
Steve Pilon
September 17, 2020 at 7:50 pm
From your lips to Biden’s ears
kebakent
September 17, 2020 at 8:30 pm
Babble. By his logic, we should all adopt communism. Meritocracy is good.
armed alone depressed
September 17, 2020 at 8:46 pm
What an idiot!
W Serba
September 17, 2020 at 8:48 pm
Talk is cheap.
Ni Go
September 17, 2020 at 9:14 pm
웃기고있네
Ni Go
September 17, 2020 at 9:16 pm
지나친 편견일뿐, 빌게이츠가 낳아
Solcrates
September 17, 2020 at 9:27 pm
This is pretty dumb. He says that college degree should be a requirement for having a good life….
Justus Americans
September 18, 2020 at 12:08 am
I find it ironic that some college educated one percenter ivy league type is going to lecture people without college degrees about the dignity of work and how that’s important pardon me sir we already know that the dignity of work is important and no we don’t need a college degree to know that the dignity of work is important
gunsandcarsandstuff
September 18, 2020 at 1:17 am
No thanks, I’m going to teach my daughter to achieve merit and be proud of what she achieves. We do need essential workers, but if someone will do the job for less, that’s what the job pays. Supply and demand works the same with labor as it does with products.
EighteenXVIII
September 18, 2020 at 1:43 am
As you approach the top 1%, the top 0.1%, and so on, how much you work becomes less relevant compared to luck and talent. There’s only so many hours in a week that you can spend time working, but talent and luck are virtually infinite.
Sumit Rajak
September 18, 2020 at 5:08 am
India wale hit like button
God N
September 18, 2020 at 9:01 am
Man speaks big words.
Mazza Marouf
September 18, 2020 at 9:30 am
Wonderful speech.
We should raise our children and our politicians to be humble and avoid narcissistic self inflation as nor their ( hard work or mediocre work ) their ( good luck or bad luck ) prevent them from contribute something to the society and that don’t deny them of basic human dignified living.
– indeed a baker work for the president ( he provide him with a service in a form of food ) but in return the president also work for the baker ( he provid him with a service in a form of stable rules that sustain his degnity as a society contributor ).
Ferazhin Lexico
September 18, 2020 at 11:42 am
“Socialism itself can hope to exist only for brief periods here and there, and then only through the exercise of the extremest terrorism. For this reason it is secretly preparing itself for rule through fear and is driving the word “justice” into the heads of the half-educated masses like a nail so as to rob them of their reason… and to create in them a good conscience for the evil game they are to play.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
“The press should be not only a collective propagandist and a collective agitator, but also a collective organizer of the masses.” – Vladimir Lenin
“We must be ready to employ trickery, deceit, law-breaking, withholding and concealing truth… We can and must write in a language which sows among the masses hate, revulsion, and scorn toward those who disagree with us.” — Vladimir Lenin
Rafael M
September 18, 2020 at 1:39 pm
The moment he said “common good” he revealed the core of his discourse: a commanded and biased idea shaped by a sinister group of commissars. And, by the way, all those ‘essential’ workers will be replaced in great numbers by robots and AI in less than 20 years.
李愚
September 18, 2020 at 11:45 pm
😍
Charles Hull
September 19, 2020 at 12:36 am
This is palaver of the lowest order. This man needs a Rand book and some motivation to accomplish soemthing
John Henderson
September 20, 2020 at 12:46 am
You just don’t get it, do you? But then you are part of a failed state!
John Henderson
September 20, 2020 at 12:46 am
You just don’t get it, do you? Rand is a nut job who preached selfishness and is no longer relevant. Both of you are part of a country that has become a failed state!
Nosett
September 19, 2020 at 3:21 am
I would recommend to anyone agreeing with this, to look into socialism, and get past the initial wall of american fear-mongering about the subject. We know there’s an inherent problem with our system, and there are practical alternatives.
Ken Perlman
September 20, 2020 at 1:49 am
Please name one actual socialist society that did not end in misery or mass murder.
Kenser Serken
September 20, 2020 at 9:49 am
i think when being in an extremely unequal society, it’s a good option to use socialism as an experiment, like Thanos’s snap, to immediately force everyone to have the same amount of resources, i call it a “universal redistribution”, and SEE whether years later we all go back to that unequal society again, if we end up being quite equal, let it be, and we just found a solution, if the society becomes still very unequal: proof that capitalism failed.
R.J. Ehlert
September 20, 2020 at 4:55 pm
@Ken Perlman It is very important to divorce the concepts of how a society handles money and the means of production, from how the country is governed politically. The United States has the veneer of democracy, but is really a constitutional republic which has been (or always was) taken over by a plutocracy. The plutocracy of the United States is fueled by mostly unregulated capitalism, in which the owning class is able to extract wealth through underpaid labor, and then use that wealth to fund the campaigns of politicians who represent their best interests.
In many ways, the United States can be looked at, as a new type of monarchy, where the aristocratic nobles are the owners of land and industry, which the serfs work for them to generate wealth, and that ownership is passed onto friends and family. The chief difference between the modern United States and the serfdom of antiquity, is that the people are given the perception of control over the government and of their own financial futures.
Serfs of the past had no illusions of their station in life, and by in large did not believe they or their children or grandchildren could somehow become Dukes and Liege Lords of the Kingdom. The status quo would be maintained until the ruling class did such a poor job of taking care of the labor class, that possibly dying in a revolt is worth the risk to free your family and friends from poverty and oppression.
In modern times, we have authoritarian, totalitarian, and tyrannical dictatorships around the world. What has happened in recent history is the ruling classes of these countries did a terrible job of taking care of their people, which lead to the labor class overthrowing the government. The uprisings are usually organized by militant rebellious groups who become very popular with the oppressed people. The rebel leaders promise the people things that will make their lives better; i.e. sharing wealth, investing in communities, and giving people the power of self governance.
Once again, there is a difference between how a country deals with money (the economy) and how it rules the people (governance). We often have rebellion leaders who promise socialism or communism in order to gain the support of the people, but when they overthrow the government, they suddenly have complete unlimited power within their country. What can go wrong then is what goes wrong in most human societal systems, those with ethical beliefs are defeated by those who are unethical. In simplified terms, some players cheat, they win against those who don’t cheat, and no one is in a position to punish the cheaters.
It is therefor unfair to judge the merits of a socialist style of economy by the standards of a military dictatorship.
Returning to the United States and other countries of similar economic and governance styles of rule, there are several factors that separate these countries from modern dictatorships and monarchies of the past. The culture is extremely different. The people do not feel like a united entity, in opposition to the wealthy rulers. Instead, people have strong tribal identities with “parties” which compete for temporary rule over the country. Instead of the labor class being set in opposition to the rulers, we are divided and set in entrenched conflict with other labor class peoples.
The options of “endure oppression forever” or “start a military rebellion and risk your life” are entirely replaced with the concept of “we lost this election, we will suffer for 4 years, but then we have a chance to be on top again”. Every societal woe can be blamed on the parties we do not identify with.
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” ― Ronald Wright. The message told over and over in every cultural story is that you will have wild success if you deserve it. That way, if we fail at rising above our parent’s socio-economic class (which statistically a certainty) it is our fault, and not the fault of a system designed to keep the labor class in place.
The United States spent decades of intentional propaganda to make the people of the country hate other styles of economy. Capitalism is the system by which a small group of people are allowed to privately own the labor of thousands or millions of people, and have private control of the means of production. Communism is a system by which the government owns all means of production. Socialism is a system by which the laborers of each means of production collectively own it by representation.
Every other idea we have about the words Capitalism, Communism, and Socialism, were intentional propaganda to cause strong emotional responses and tribal identities. The incredibly wealthy owning class of the United States watched other countries governments be overthrown by militant groups, and replaced with systems which nominally redistributed the wealth to the people. The owning class in the United States was terrorized of that concept, and the politicians also wanted to avoid the guillotine, so they started one of the most effective propaganda campaigns in history.
Hundred of millions of Americans were taught to hate any country that had a different way of regulating money. Other ways of handling money were demonized, and people were made to think of it as both a virus and a demonic possession. The Red Panic, the idea that by physical proximity to a country that handled money differently would cause every neighboring country to become infected and “Fall” was taught to an entire country.
This propaganda was to manipulate the peoples of the United States, and make them eagerly chomp at the bit to defend their economic “freedom” from the evil Red way of handling money. The Korean war and the Vietnam war, were basically proxy wars for the United States and Soviet Union, in which they could posture on the world stage and play out trial runs during their Cold War.
Currently the owning class and the dynasty of politicians in the United States have no interest in changing how the country is managed, and every interest in preventing the unification of the labor class.
Mike C
September 21, 2020 at 12:38 am
The problems inherent in any system, will bring criticisms of those that have been successful in the present
System.
Any system is only as good as the rules and regulations that make it free and equitable.
People need to comprehend that any system can be exploited by any group of people.
Hence socialism will never be the cure all people believe it to be.
Mike C
September 21, 2020 at 12:40 am
Kenser Serken
Forced equality, will always be an ugly concept, rife with conflict.
R.J. Ehlert
September 21, 2020 at 12:40 pm
@Mike C Socialism isn’t about forced equality. It’s about the laborers owning the major profits of a company, and the labor union being people who make decisions for the company.
Mike C
September 21, 2020 at 3:41 pm
R.J. Ehlert and who is going to invest capital into this company?
Mike C
September 21, 2020 at 4:35 pm
R.J. Ehlert
Socialism is always about forced outcomes, as it’s always about taking from somewhere or someone to benefit others.
Invox
September 19, 2020 at 1:12 pm
This is an American problem. 😥
Unfortunatelly, this “US virus” is spreading to other countries… Mainly thru Social Media. 😩
Mike C
September 21, 2020 at 12:34 am
Human self interests, goes far beyond American idealism.
Selfishness is a human endeavor, rooted in the ID of our behaviors.
And it will inevitably lead to conflict and chaos,
Anon
September 19, 2020 at 3:29 pm
Yea so, alot of this is very true but is ultimately wishful thinking for the same reasons most utopian ideas don’t work. They ignore human nature. Meritorious capitalism is callous, but ultimately better suited to the diversity of the human condition. Luck is unobjective and irrevocable therefore perfect equality is impossible. What isnt required, is the perpetuation of dynastic wealth and oligarchy like policies that enforce it.
tksprabu
September 19, 2020 at 4:18 pm
Humans are ruling the planet because of some lucky evolutionary accident. We (Humans) need to accommodate the less lucky co-inhabitants of this planet.
Mike C
September 21, 2020 at 12:41 am
Than maybe someone should have suggested limiting conception before we reached an absurd
7 billion inhabitants.
Kieverdam
September 19, 2020 at 7:45 pm
“Your failure is your fault.”
Sometimes that IS true – if you’re lazy and don’t even make any effort. Stop trying to push communism.
asianhippy
September 20, 2020 at 12:15 am
What a load of bollocks.
Ken Perlman
September 20, 2020 at 1:47 am
Does this apply to athletes and celebrities or just to professionals , businessmen and financiers?
freesk8
September 21, 2020 at 11:43 pm
Good one! Imagine trying to apply an egalitarian scheme, by force, on professional athletes? Do the stars go from multi-million dollar contracts down to six figures, just so the third string can make more? Absurd! Nicely argued! 🙂
Ken Perlman
September 20, 2020 at 1:52 am
I suspect that he votes for the party that vows to put coal miners out of work and measured success by the increase in number of people on the unemployment insurance rolls.
Mike C
September 21, 2020 at 12:43 am
Maybe we should go back to the horse and plow so that everyone is employed?
B Welkinator
September 20, 2020 at 3:38 am
Let me suggest to you that there will always be a bottom half to the intellectual ability curve. Also, I suggest that genetically we pair-bond with mates of similar abilities yielding offspring with our particular place on the curve. Exceptions tend to prove the rule.
Mike C
September 21, 2020 at 12:44 am
Yeh right.
I am sure the Orwellian nature of your suggestion wouldn’t rattle most of us.
B Welkinator
September 21, 2020 at 4:22 pm
@Mike C Odd – you don’t dispute either point which are both rooted in math (probability distribution) and psychology. Both have been true for as long as mankind has been aware of them and then you suggest that these facts lead to dystopia.
Mike C
September 21, 2020 at 4:46 pm
B Welkinator
No I don’t refute the benefit of pair bonding to make a stronger hybrid.
My issue is in what reality people would adhere to this and any forced procreation would be Orwellian.
irene mommers
September 20, 2020 at 6:12 am
great Talk ! Thank you
G Pooh
September 20, 2020 at 6:51 am
This guy’s logic is totally messed up. Sounds like socialist BS. Bunch of platitudes without practicality…. misses the fact that it’s not merit but competence that usually rules the day, and for good reason.
James Garness
September 20, 2020 at 10:21 am
I agree an engineer is worth more than a philosophy professor. However you’ve missed out the fact that 70 years ago people were vastly poorer. My father taught me the value of labour and education, funny so many in poverty dont have a father.
Marinko Bunić
September 20, 2020 at 10:35 am
They (US American Meritocrcy) are too intrusive to be ignored and too abnormal for their impact to remain without serious consequences on all of us.
Walter Wilkins
September 20, 2020 at 1:30 pm
I’m looking forward to reading this book; I hope it addresses the claim that privilege accompanied by philanthropy gives birth to universal benefits only possible by privilege and philanthropy.
John Prendergast
September 20, 2020 at 1:39 pm
Your argument has no MERIT …You are fired …..Good luck !
Mariana Carvajal
September 20, 2020 at 4:15 pm
I completely agree with your reasoning.
R.J. Ehlert
September 20, 2020 at 5:02 pm
On the topic and in response to people who argue that Capitalism is the best form of economy.
It is very important to divorce the concepts of how a society handles money and the means of production, from how the country is governed politically. The United States has the veneer of democracy, but is really a constitutional republic which has been (or always was) taken over by a plutocracy. The plutocracy of the United States is fueled by mostly unregulated capitalism, in which the owning class is able to extract wealth through underpaid labor, and then use that wealth to fund the campaigns of politicians who represent their best interests.
In many ways, the United States can be looked at, as a new type of monarchy, where the aristocratic nobles are the owners of land and industry, which the serfs work for them to generate wealth, and that ownership is passed onto friends and family. The chief difference between the modern United States and the serfdom of antiquity, is that the people are given the perception of control over the government and of their own financial futures.
Serfs of the past had no illusions of their station in life, and by in large did not believe they or their children or grandchildren could somehow become Dukes and Liege Lords of the Kingdom. The status quo would be maintained until the ruling class did such a poor job of taking care of the labor class, that possibly dying in a revolt is worth the risk to free your family and friends from poverty and oppression.
In modern times, we have authoritarian, totalitarian, and tyrannical dictatorships around the world. What has happened in recent history is the ruling classes of these countries did a terrible job of taking care of their people, which lead to the labor class overthrowing the government. The uprisings are usually organized by militant rebellious groups who become very popular with the oppressed people. The rebel leaders promise the people things that will make their lives better; i.e. sharing wealth, investing in communities, and giving people the power of self governance.
Once again, there is a difference between how a country deals with money (the economy) and how it rules the people (governance). We often have rebellion leaders who promise socialism or communism in order to gain the support of the people, but when they overthrow the government, they suddenly have complete unlimited power within their country. What can go wrong then is what goes wrong in most human societal systems, those with ethical beliefs are defeated by those who are unethical. In simplified terms, some players cheat, they win against those who don’t cheat, and no one is in a position to punish the cheaters.
It is therefor unfair to judge the merits of a socialist style of economy by the standards of a military dictatorship.
Returning to the United States and other countries of similar economic and governance styles of rule, there are several factors that separate these countries from modern dictatorships and monarchies of the past. The culture is extremely different. The people do not feel like a united entity, in opposition to the wealthy rulers. Instead, people have strong tribal identities with “parties” which compete for temporary rule over the country. Instead of the labor class being set in opposition to the rulers, we are divided and set in entrenched conflict with other labor class peoples.
The options of “endure oppression forever” or “start a military rebellion and risk your life” are entirely replaced with the concept of “we lost this election, we will suffer for 4 years, but then we have a chance to be on top again”. Every societal woe can be blamed on the parties we do not identify with.
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” ― Ronald Wright. The message told over and over in every cultural story is that you will have wild success if you deserve it. That way, if we fail at rising above our parent’s socio-economic class (which statistically a certainty) it is our fault, and not the fault of a system designed to keep the labor class in place.
The United States spent decades of intentional propaganda to make the people of the country hate other styles of economy. Capitalism is the system by which a small group of people are allowed to privately own the labor of thousands or millions of people, and have private control of the means of production. Communism is a system by which the government owns all means of production. Socialism is a system by which the laborers of each means of production collectively own it by representation.
Every other idea we have about the words Capitalism, Communism, and Socialism, were intentional propaganda to cause strong emotional responses and tribal identities. The incredibly wealthy owning class of the United States watched other countries governments be overthrown by militant groups, and replaced with systems which nominally redistributed the wealth to the people. The owning class in the United States was terrorized of that concept, and the politicians also wanted to avoid the guillotine, so they started one of the most effective propaganda campaigns in history.
Hundred of millions of Americans were taught to hate any country that had a different way of regulating money. Other ways of handling money were demonized, and people were made to think of it as both a virus and a demonic possession. The Red Panic, the idea that by physical proximity to a country that handled money differently would cause every neighboring country to become infected and “Fall” was taught to an entire country.
This propaganda was to manipulate the peoples of the United States, and make them eagerly chomp at the bit to defend their economic “freedom” from the evil Red way of handling money. The Korean war and the Vietnam war, were basically proxy wars for the United States and Soviet Union, in which they could posture on the world stage and play out trial runs during their Cold War.
Currently the owning class and the dynasty of politicians in the United States have no interest in changing how the country is managed, and every interest in preventing the unification of the labor class.
Susan Parente
September 20, 2020 at 9:21 pm
You might want to talk to people who are from poor families. They may not agree with you…
eliteedgegenetics
September 21, 2020 at 9:19 am
Plenty of immigrants from all over the world come to the USA with next to nothing and become successful. This argument has zero merit. Proof is the Asian community. How bad do you want it? We all can’t win. Such is life.
Ksch Koff
September 21, 2020 at 4:50 pm
Okay, most of my bosses have been decent people with some humility. Where is this even coming from? I don’t care about what elites have.
Todd Jones
September 21, 2020 at 8:48 pm
I love the message, but I’m not sure I’d use the term “Merit” this way. To me, merit is a measure of competence, not something associated with your careers’ relative status. A competent garbage man has more merit in my eyes than a poor physician.