CNET
If You Have Solar Without Home Batteries, You Might Be Kidding Yourself
If you’re still focused on power in a blackout, you’re missing 99% of why home batteries are interesting — and even more so with a new 30% tax credit. 0:00 Solar Home Battery Storage 0:50 Hands-on with home batteries 2:31 Beyond power outages 3:10 How to save money using battery storage 4:19 How battery storage…
CNET
Checking Out the Afeela Prototype
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Unboxing the PlayStation 5 Pro
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A Helium-Filled Cell Tower in the Sky
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SOLO EFFECT
October 22, 2022 at 2:46 pm
Good video explaining most of what’s needed to get started ✌🏾
besweeeet2
October 22, 2022 at 2:51 pm
Would take decades to pay off. I laughed when the guy said you’d get “free” energy from the batteries.
Pat Hanada
October 22, 2022 at 2:56 pm
In the USVI we pay that high rate all day long for residential accounts 🤣
Aziz Mehmet
October 22, 2022 at 3:00 pm
The living legend Brian Cooley, Only he can articulate the best. I never get tired of watching his videos. I wish him and Molly Wood would do another collaboration soon like a few years back.
Reginald Sharma
October 22, 2022 at 3:06 pm
I’ve used future energy to get solar installed on my roof in my past home… I highly DO NOT recommend them.
They sell you the world but when it comes to support… Good luck.
Had to file BBB complaint against them for false advertising.
Also their costs are 3 times more expensive then other companies for cheap brands
Hintonbro
October 22, 2022 at 3:08 pm
How about some numbers Brian – What is the estimated payback for this setup? Or if there isn’t one, what is the cost for the peace of mind of battery storage?
Dean Weng
October 22, 2022 at 4:58 pm
Ballpark $20k installed if you want everything they mentioned (storage with critical load panel). But you won’t be able to buy one anytime soon anyways.
Dean Weng
October 22, 2022 at 5:03 pm
Ballpark doing rate arbitrage will net ~$600 a year. So 30+ year payback.
Assuming 20c/50c off/on peak, 85% r.t. efficiency, 10 kWh a day, 20 days a month, 12 months a year. I would say that’s pretty generous assumptions. And basically only applies in a handful of states (namely CA, HI).
Add whatever value and likelihood you think for backup.
Fully Charged DIY
October 22, 2022 at 3:10 pm
That’s a little battery, you would need 10 of these to power a house for a week. I built a battery that last a month.
jerry kurata
October 22, 2022 at 8:11 pm
Depending on your weather, size of solar, electrical load, and shading you may don’t need the battery to power the home to long. On a sunny day the battery can be recharged and at the same time power the house. When testing it for fun we went 4 days disconnected from the grid.
Fully Charged DIY
October 22, 2022 at 8:20 pm
@jerry kurata I like the product…4 days is not worth it in my eyes. I can build one for the price of this battery, that will power a 3bdr house with Hvac for 14 days. You’re right about charging, weather & solar. Solar is worthless in my eyes, unless the energy is stored.
Scut
October 22, 2022 at 10:30 pm
@Fully Charged DIY What setup can you build that’ll power a 3bdr with HVAC for 14 days? I’m getting solar installed soon but turned down getting a battery due to high costs. I was told I can get battery back-up at a later time.
Scut
October 23, 2022 at 3:37 am
@Fully Charged DIY Will these batteries work with my upcoming residential solar system with Enphase microinverters?
Jameel
October 22, 2022 at 3:59 pm
Great segment, but how come no mention of price?
Joe Schex
October 22, 2022 at 5:08 pm
Battery alone 25k Battery and solar 53k
leaf16nut
October 22, 2022 at 5:12 pm
You don’t want to know the price 😂
T Lewis
October 22, 2022 at 3:59 pm
Generac batteries have been having problems.
DragonBall Manga 1984
October 22, 2022 at 4:02 pm
the future looks Gud 👌 God save AMERICA 🇺🇸
karacihan
October 22, 2022 at 4:15 pm
End this era everything in the battery
Salman Amir
October 22, 2022 at 4:48 pm
YO THANK YOU SO MUCH
Dean Weng
October 22, 2022 at 4:54 pm
Not only is selling solar back to the grid increasingly not economic (decreasing NEM) for the average homeowner, it’s bad for the grid and everyone else on the grid.
leaf16nut
October 22, 2022 at 5:06 pm
I could listen to Brian Cooley talk about anything, great presentation every time, informative, interesting, makes watching the video a joy 👌
zunedog31
October 22, 2022 at 7:52 pm
He used to have a weekly show 10-12 years ago. Was so nice.
leaf16nut
October 24, 2022 at 9:49 pm
@zunedog31 Yeah I’ve watched like all his content, he’s easily one of the best at what he does!
Keith Barnett
October 22, 2022 at 5:15 pm
Nice but will be expensive to replace the batteries and solar panels in about 10 years.
Big Wave_Dave
October 22, 2022 at 7:05 pm
Good video. Such a bummer that PG&E won’t pay the wholesale power rate for back-feeding. There was a time when the electro-mechanical meters would just run backwards but because of weak state government consumer advocacy, PG&E doesn’t have to pay the consumer fair market price. For these modalities, policy matters.
MondoTV
October 23, 2022 at 12:59 pm
Critical thinking would tell you that there’s a cost in supplying electricity to your home. And that PG&E is a publicly traded company with shareholders. The time that solar is at it’s highest is when wholesale prices are generally at their lowest. Not always but a lot of the time. So why should PG&E pay you more for your generated electricity than they can sell it back to the market? In fact, in times of extremely high generation and low demand the price can go negative, in which case you should be paying the utility. Instead what utilities try and do is pay you an average minus a profit margin, costs and future capital funding . 4c kWh seems a little low to me so if that’s all you get you’ve got an argument for a higher FiT. I do think the market would benefit if PG&E was broken up to encourage some competition. But you cannot expect your meter to run backwards because if enough people have solar there would no longer be an energy grid.
Big Wave_Dave
October 23, 2022 at 2:21 pm
@MondoTV sure, but the bulk cost of power at any moment in time is set by the Independent System Authority and varies constantly. When you are the supplier, and pg&e is the purchaser of your power, why should they get a windfall profit from you? They exist to serve the public, not the other way around. The power company should not be a pubilcally traded company (look at Texas). The corporate profit motivation at the public expense has no place in infrastrucure especially since these “regulated monopolies” have successfully avoided shouldering the cost of their massive failures. I’m of the opinion that the state should create its own power authority and take over the infrastructure so we (California citizens) are not perpetually abused by PG&E.
MondoTV
October 24, 2022 at 2:34 pm
@Big Wave_Dave They don’t get a windfall profit. They may buy the power off you too cheap (that’s another argument and stems back to PG&E being a monopoly) but you were saying in your OP that they should pay you the same amount they sell the power to you (running the meter backwards) or the wholesale price. That fails to take into account the way electricity rates are calculated. They sell the power to you at either a flat rate or tiered TOU rate. Either way those rates are not what PG&E pay at any moment in time. Some times you may be paying 30c a kWh and the utility is buying the power for $2 kWh because demand is high and gas peaker plants have to be brought online and those guys are the real profiteers. At other times when solar or wind generation is high they’re making nearly 100% margin. They need to because remember it is an average rate. If they paid you 30c/kWh they would make a loss. If they paid you the wholesale price and the price went negative (which happens) would you be happy paying them to export your solar? Because that’s exactly what paying the wholesale price means.
Big Wave_Dave
October 24, 2022 at 3:55 pm
@MondoTV I said ´there was a time´ when the meters ran backwards — I was not saying that they should now. That was a time before we had smart metering and the ability to do real-time metering which requires a feedback system. In those days there was very little home-power generation. But I stand by the statement they are getting a windfall. They are not paying you fair market value for the TOU power you generate. PG&E offers either flat rate or tiered service. There´s no reason they can´t offer the ISO rate in real–time or a fraction thereof. If the latter, then it´s still a good deal for PG&E . As for nagative pay for loss, (unloading unused realtime excess capacity by net sales, pumping water etc..) the comparison is bogus as the on–demand system of a house can be turned on-off at will without having to shunt power. It is the for–profit utility which needs the power from you (or another source) not the other way around — interestingly, you can find the bulk rate over time for the ISO online which is fascinating.
Andy Ballard
October 22, 2022 at 7:29 pm
Will there be a step change in both cost and performance for home battery systems when solid state battery systems become available?.
Ryan
October 22, 2022 at 11:10 pm
I believe solid state batteries will revolutionise the automotive industry as the industry is prioritising fast charging and lightweight energy storage. However, for home storage size and weight are not an issue. So as SSB are used in cars that will free up the lithium batteries to be used for stationary storage. And hopefully reducing costs by changing the demand between the industries. Battery technology is getting cheaper but the demand is increasing more rapidly. I paid $7500 for a home battery and now 2 years later the exact same product is $10000 because of supply and demand issues.
Ryan
October 22, 2022 at 11:11 pm
Additionally the war with Ukraine as added to the issue because they where a large exporter of battery minerals.
Andy Ballard
October 23, 2022 at 8:40 am
@Ryan thanks for the reply and that’s pretty much what I thought. The stock of already produced Lion batterys will be repurposed to home storage and hopefully drive prices down
swinglow33
October 22, 2022 at 7:44 pm
We’ve seen the videos of EV fires and how tough a time it gives the fire department. But I haven’t seen any type of fire system/extinguisher for the home with a battery system. Is it different than the typical home fire extinguisher?
Ryan
October 22, 2022 at 11:04 pm
The problem with lithium battery fires is they are a self oxidising fire, meaning it doesn’t matter. If you smother the battery, it is still getting its oxygen from its own fuel source. the best way to mitigate a battery fire damage is to isolate it from emergency exits and additional fuel sources. Hence the name thermal Runaway when talking about battery fires. However, home energy storage uses a different lithium technology to electric cars. They prioritise capacity and safety over weight and size constraints because the battery will be stationary for the duration of its life. Additionally, the battery management systems installed in this energy storage solutions are incredibly safe and are your best defence to prevent thermal Runaway.
Bill Johnson
October 23, 2022 at 2:27 am
At least with Generac and Enphase, they use LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries instead on NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt). Though no lithium ion battery is completely safe (currently), LFP batteries are much safer without the concern of thermal runaway if the batteries are stressed, have faults, or are mistreated.
zunedog31
October 22, 2022 at 7:49 pm
37 idiots downvoted Brian Cooley
jerry kurata
October 22, 2022 at 8:06 pm
We use our batteries (Powerwalls) to prevent having to buy power from the grid and power the entire house if there is a power outage. We have gone from $400/mo. bill in the summer to a $10/mo. bill. I wish we had done this sooner. So far, I have not seen any need for a generator. However, I can understand the utility of a generator. Or even, better yet I would like to be able to use the160+kWhs of battery capacity we have in our EVs to as a secondary option to power the house.
Ryan
October 22, 2022 at 11:18 pm
It’s a bit disappointing that Tessa tries to sell you a complete energy solution by generating power at home, storing it in your home and using electric vehicles, but they still haven’t optimised it. I believe the main reason why teslas don’t have bidirectional charging is because Tesla is worried that some early Tesla owners will recharge their cars for free at superchargers and then drive home and power their house off that free energy. however it’s really easy to prevent this with their in-house software and would be able to add a feature where energy that is placed into the car by super chargers is capped and can’t be exported. But could also add the feature that if the owner needs to do so due to a blackout they can but will have to pay for the “free” energy at the same rate as a new Tesla customer. Apparently all the hardware is in the car it’s just software and company policy that is preventing it.
jerry kurata
October 23, 2022 at 1:35 pm
There are fewer and fewer Teslas with free Supercharging beyond a limited trial period with a KWh cap. But, regardless of paying for charging, I wish there was a way to use the charge in your car battery. Other companies cars like the Ford F-150 can do this withe the right home charger.
Gordon B
October 22, 2022 at 9:05 pm
Back up is a bad sell point Gross
Anthoni Gatlin
October 22, 2022 at 10:07 pm
I think a backup generator is all you need.
TeleRye
October 22, 2022 at 10:16 pm
too bad Generac has left a number of their solar customers with non-functional systems with Pink Energy
Ryan
October 22, 2022 at 10:59 pm
I have a 6.6kw solar panel array with a 5kw inverter I paid AUD$5500 for the system and it’s ROI was 2.5 years. 2 years after getting the solar. I started investigating storage. I found Alpha ESS had a good system for the price I paid AUD$7500 for a 10Kwh battery storage system with a 4.5kw inverter. Energy prices in Australia have changed dramatically and now the ROI for the battery went from 6-7 years to 4 years. I have been very impressed with the system and we average 2kwh of grid power a day but we consume 30kwh. I now have my system integrated with my smart home and if backup power is on then all my smart lights will dim to a low red hue. nothing gives you home ownership pride when the neighbours come knocking on your door asking how we have power during a black out. It’s a massive flex and something I think is very important about energy independence is it makes you live better life in your house. Hot day? No worries turn on the AC it’s free! Feeling lazy and don’t want to hang out the washing? No worries use the dryer it’s free. You live a better life with less stress and gratification that you aren’t contributing to co2 emissions. If I could have my time again I would have spent the extra AUD$1500 to have the battery inverter upgraded to a hybrid inverter and plugged the solar array directly into the one system. This would allow me to charge my battery with solar if the grid was down this is because I have an AC coupled system. But they where installed at separate times and budget was tight for a student share house. If you can afford it invest in it so long as you are well informed and do your research on the systems available and ensure your installer proposes their installation design before they start you two will have a better lifestyle.
message me on telegram 👉 AM_CNET
October 22, 2022 at 11:18 pm
☝️☝️🆙Thanks for watching you have been selected among my lucky winners message me to claim your prize…
V L
October 23, 2022 at 1:19 am
Most of these batteries are not LiPO4. AVOID. These Generac units are as useless as the Generac natural gas generators. Huge brand, poor quality.
S P
October 23, 2022 at 1:30 am
The solar story has to pivot from being green and having power during a blackout to a national security issue.
toki&yangyang
October 23, 2022 at 4:04 am
Considering loss of efficiency in charging and discharging the battery, Is it still profitable to store energy during off-peak from the grid and using it during peak time?
ad on
October 23, 2022 at 5:02 am
Sure. These are also lithium batteries, their round trip efficiency is quite high, greater than 90%.
toki&yangyang
October 23, 2022 at 6:22 am
@ad on you also have to consider the cost of the battery. For the cheaper Powerwall, you get around 7500 cycles so for every cycle you are paying 13c per kWh. When all is added you are approaching the peak-time cost of 50c/kwh (34c/.9 + 13c = 51c/kwh). Correct me if im wrong.
ad on
October 23, 2022 at 7:05 am
@toki&yangyang I see your point but I think the Tesla power wall and even this generac are at the more expensive end of the range of storage batteries available on the market right now. You can put together much cheaper UL listed options (inverters + storage batteries) if you shop around a bit. Reasonably price options are available from the likes of signature solar, alte store, current connected etc. Bear in mind that for those who can afford any of these energy storage systems, the peace of mind that comes with having automatic stand by power when the grid goes down is simply priceless as well. Remember generators are far less efficient, less reliable, noisier & more polluting than these lithium battery energy storage systems. Lastly, batteries don’t become completely useless after their rated cycles. They are rated to typically retain 80% (60% is the lowest I have come across) of their original capacity. The owner can therefore continue to use them for the original or other purposes.
toki&yangyang
October 23, 2022 at 7:11 am
@ad on very true! Thanks for the detailed answer. Any suggestions on a particular solar battery system? I was thinking of going with Sunpower or Powerwall but i would be open to other brands as long as they aren’t Dollar store brand and quality
jerry kurata
October 23, 2022 at 1:42 pm
@toki&yangyang we have Powerwalls and are happy with them. In an outage we rarely even see the lights flicker. We have to go to the window and see if the neighbors are dark. Also it is great not having an electrical bill.
TIRO
October 23, 2022 at 6:52 am
Another great video by CNET and Brian Cooley. Love how you guys explain things in a way everyone can understand!
Samuel Emere Nsor
October 23, 2022 at 7:11 am
Congratulations! You’ve won the ( VARSACE Jacquard Greca Signature Jacket ) Grand Prize in our ‘Giveaway’ contest!❤️❤️❤️🎁💗💗🎁🎁
Steve A
October 24, 2022 at 2:27 am
The comment by the solar/battery rep about how Net Energy Metering works is very incorrect (In California at least). Charges and credits for energy pulled from AND pushed to the grid accrue at the same rates. Only when you have pushed back MORE energy than consumed, in a given time period (true-up bills are once per year) will you only be paid the wholesale energy rate of $0.03-0.04/kWh.