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If you can’t afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you, right? Not in US civil court. From high legal fees to confusing paperwork and expensive lawyers, it can be difficult to settle civil matters. Entrepreneur and TED Fellow Rohan Pavuluri is working to streamline cumbersome legal processes with an app that empowers people to solve their own legal problems.
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[SHAPE YOUR FUTURE]
I’m going to start by telling you
a story about Danielle.
When she was a senior in college,
Danielle’s dad passed away,
which left her mom
with no way to support herself.
So Danielle had to drop out of college
and pick up three jobs as a barista,
a bartender and a car washer.
Altogether, the three jobs paid Danielle
23,000 dollars per year,
which wasn’t a whole lot,
but it allowed her to feed her mom
and keep a roof over their head.
And for Danielle, that was enough.
But early one morning when Danielle
was driving home from one of her jobs,
a deer ran in front of her car.
She swerved off the road
and crashed into a barn.
And Danielle doesn’t remember
exactly what happened next,
but when she woke up in a hospital
a few hours later,
a doctor told her that she had damaged
her brain stem and C1 vertebrae.
Now, the good news is that Danielle
was going to leave the hospital alive.
But the bad news is that Danielle
had 55,000 dollars in medical bills.
Now, Danielle tried so hard for the next
two years to try and pay back that debt,
but it was impossible.
It was impossible for Danielle to pay back
55,000 dollars in medical bills,
earning just 23,000 dollars per year.
She felt trapped.
One freak accident put Danielle
on the verge of homelessness,
hunger, poverty.
And when you’re in Danielle’s shoes,
bankruptcy is a lifeline.
It’s a powerful legal tool
that allows you to relieve your debt
and re-enter the economy.
Medical emergency, a job loss, a divorce.
These are financial shocks
that could happen to any of us.
And when you’re living
paycheck to paycheck
and don’t have a whole lot of savings,
like so many Americans,
a financial shock can ruin your life.
Bankruptcy gives you a second chance.
But when Danielle went
to go find a bankruptcy lawyer,
she, like so many others
filing for bankruptcy,
learned that it was going
to cost her 1,500 dollars.
She didn’t have that kind of money.
I mean, what a cruel irony.
In America, it costs you
1,500 dollars to tell the court
that you have no money.
When you walk into a court,
everyone from the judge
to the clerk to the forms themselves
will tell you to go find a lawyer,
no matter how little money you have.
One of the great civil rights
injustices in America
is that we don’t have
equal rights under the law.
What we have is equal rights
if you can afford a lawyer.
Whether you’re evicted from your home
in an abusive relationship
or need access to bankruptcy,
you have no right to a free lawyer
in most civil cases.
And because there aren’t
even close to enough
pro bono or legal aid lawyers around,
four out of five low-income Americans
can’t get the legal help they need
to access their civil legal rights.
Four years ago,
I helped start an organization
to fight for new civil right in America,
the right to solve your own legal problem
when you can’t afford a lawyer.
We started with bankruptcy.
Our nonprofit Upsolve has built an app
to help people file for bankruptcy
on their own for free.
People like Danielle.
Our app asks people questions
about their finances
in language they can understand
and then uses this information
to help generate their forms.
Last year, Danielle used Upsolve
to file for bankruptcy
on her own for free.
She got her final letter from the court,
relieving all of her medical debt,
right after Christmas Day.
Today, Danielle has
the highest paying job she’s ever had
and she’s on track to finish her degree.
There are so many opportunities
to create a more just legal system
by empowering people
to solve their own legal problems
whenever possible.
This is especially true
in nonadversarial areas of the law,
things like no-asset bankruptcies,
uncontested divorces
and Social Security disability.
But there are two main barriers
that stand in the way.
The first is legal complexity.
We’ve designed our forms in courts
around lawyers, not regular people.
Many legal forms are like
modern day literacy tests.
When you can’t understand them,
you can’t access your rights.
Every year, poorly designed forms,
courts and processes
deny millions of Americans their life,
their liberty and their property.
Legal complexity
is a civil rights injustice.
To start solving this problem,
we need to require
basic user testing in courts
and reviser assumption
in areas of poverty law
that everybody will be able
to afford a lawyer.
A second barrier is a closed culture.
We’ve been met
with pushback from some folks
who believe that you need
to go see a lawyer
no matter what legal problem you have.
Imagine you had to go see a doctor
to cure a plain old headache
rather than being able to buy Advil
at your local pharmacy.
Telling a person who is poor
to go find a lawyer
when they obviously can’t afford one
is out of touch,
iIntimidating, unfair and wrong.
It’s also a racial injustice.
Black and brown communities
disproportionately cannot afford
the legal fees they need
to access their civil legal rights.
Many legal fees
are like modern day poll taxes.
When you can’t afford to pay the fees,
you can access your rights.
And we have a decision to make
about how open and equal
we want our system of justice to be.
The only way we’re ever going to have
equal rights in America
is if we get rid
of the modern day literacy tests
and poll taxes that dominate
our courts and legal system.
We need a new civil right in America,
the right to solve your own legal problem
when you can’t afford a lawyer.
Because in America, our rights
are supposed to be inalienable,
our protections are supposed to be equal,
and we all deserve a chance at life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness,
whether or not we
can afford the legal fees.
Thank you.
graham mewburn
June 15, 2021 at 7:47 pm
There’s an alternative to going bankrupt.
An agreed settlement.
When my first business failed my accountant asked me to sell all the business assets and give him the money. He then rang all creditors and offered 10% in full settlement of the debt. I was now debt free, but not a bankrupt.
Chirag Jeswani
June 15, 2021 at 9:46 pm
This worked because your corporation was a seperate entity. When it comes to individuals, the law is a bit different.
graham mewburn
June 15, 2021 at 10:07 pm
@Chirag Jeswani no I was a sole trader not a company
kodez79
June 15, 2021 at 7:50 pm
Our country has a constitution that demands that the people must be able to understand the laws and defend themselves in court, which puts demands on the lawmakers. If a law is deemed not understandable, it is not valid. I thought it obvious.
Rishi Raj
June 15, 2021 at 7:52 pm
👍
MrZacchery
June 15, 2021 at 7:52 pm
Truth! Truth, truth, truth.
Lemonhead Penny
June 15, 2021 at 8:00 pm
AMEN!
Joshua Baugh
June 15, 2021 at 8:05 pm
Whatd the app called again? Lost in the accent
zerwas2ky
June 15, 2021 at 8:13 pm
Rohan Pavuluri is the CEO of Upsolve.
maikukun
June 15, 2021 at 9:44 pm
What accent? He speaks great English. If I hadn’t seen him, I’d have no clue what race he is.
nikidino8
June 15, 2021 at 8:07 pm
God bless me that those things can’t happen to me because I have health insurance!
Major Old Lady aka, Mom
June 15, 2021 at 11:00 pm
Right. 5 years ago, had a $300K emergency surgery. My deductible was almost $19K, not counting the peripheral Labs and Expert Consultants, etc.
Adnan Khan
June 15, 2021 at 8:08 pm
Lawyers : Main kya karun phir job chhod dun?
zerwas2ky
June 15, 2021 at 8:11 pm
“A financial shock [read: medical bill] can ruin your life.” As a European, this always sounds surreal to me and I hope this systemic issue can be solved in the U.S. some day.
Penny Lane
June 16, 2021 at 12:50 am
Which one, the lack of free healthcare or the lack of a right to an attorney? (Yes, I know you mean both.)
Scott Pool
June 15, 2021 at 8:14 pm
Move to the Philippines it’s half that much a quarter of the price who needs America anyway America sucks and I could do neon say that because you’re I’m leaving America for parts unknown and I wish everybody the best of luck God bless.
Read my ABOUT section PLEASE
June 15, 2021 at 8:20 pm
*Sorry for this, I just badly need help. Have a spare $1?* Savin’ to get a laptop (homejob). Can’t get a job due to constant lockdowns in our country. 😷 I’m not a bad person, just a desperate breadwinner. Lost a lot since 2020. 💔
*Prayers and well-wishes are also very much appreciated. 😇*
Off-topic, I know… I hope you understand the desperation. I know some people need more help than me and my family but I do hope that does not invalidate my cry for help. 😔
Things are getting worse here. We don’t have stimulus checks or anything like USA. So I’m just really doing whatever I can to put food on the table. We may not be killed by the virus but the situation is surely slowly killing us. 💔
*Peace be with you. GOD bless. 🙏*
*And to anyone who’s also struggling, let’s hold on tight. All will soon be well. ❤💌*
Melah Kehla
June 15, 2021 at 8:21 pm
Empower them after you’ve indoctrinated them to be victims? Or, before?
Peter Petrakis
June 15, 2021 at 10:35 pm
Nailed it!
Leonardo
June 15, 2021 at 8:44 pm
Hi, I’m Brasileiro
I am watch this video to improve my lesening in ingles.
Forgives to my mistakes.
I’m not in advanced level still
Major Old Lady aka, Mom
June 15, 2021 at 10:56 pm
Lessons in or about English.
Lessons in English.
Lessons about English.
Hope this helps…, from somewhere near Seattle.
⚘🙏❤🙏⚘
LilyAriaAva DHappy
June 15, 2021 at 8:48 pm
🌹💝💕🏵️🌷🌹💎💞👍🎶💞💎🌸How to empower people to solve their own legal problems | Rohan Pavuluri💕💜💘🌸👍💞🌻💎🌺💕💖💜🎶💘🌺🌸
Storm Born
June 15, 2021 at 8:50 pm
Ignore it. it goes away.
Peter Petrakis
June 15, 2021 at 8:54 pm
I remember being able to buy a catastrophic health care plan in 2000 for… ready for this? About $100.00/mo. It covered emergency room visits, cancer treatments, and a yearly physical.
Whatisreal? Knowtheformula
June 15, 2021 at 8:54 pm
TED talks have fully transitioned to advertising for VC-backed programs?
Wren
June 15, 2021 at 9:09 pm
What’s a VC backed program? Victim centered?
Peter Petrakis
June 15, 2021 at 9:25 pm
I appreciate the sentiment in principle. The brass tacks however is that even for a skilled attorney, the practice of law is a laborious process, *someone* has to do that work. The cost of just communicating with the other side in manner that is professional and productive is a challenge. Never mind actually preparing and filing motions, agreements, etc. What would have them do? Just dump the mess in front of the judge and let him/her sort it out like you’re doing taxes at H&R Block? A courtroom is a like a hospital emergency room, everyone thinks their issue is the most important and the waiting room is always full. There is literally no end in sight.
Not everything can be condensed into a fancy spreadsheet app. Kudos to you for pulling that off. Generalizing it to something like say family law or criminal law requires a bit more nuance. Things that could be improved and this is just off the top of my head:
1. e-file all things and online access to the court’s copy of all filings
2. A tutorial on court room procedure. Who’s the petitioner and respondent? Who gets to use letters in their exhibit list and who has to resort to numbers?
3. Enclosure letter samples and procedure for communicating with the other side
4. offer video/phone as the default hearing medium instead of in person
5. forgo notarizing documents, it’s so archaic. Signing under the pains and penalties of perjury is enough
6. Provide example forms for *everything*. NH actually does a great job at this. For family law anyways
Ultimately people hire attorneys for the same reasons they hire plumbers. Their respective domains require considerable training and tools to be effective in a time frame that matters. You don’t DIY it when your septic is backing up into your basement. You don’t have the time nor the expertise to do the job right. So… Back to my opening statement, who’s going to do the work? Or are we all entitled to free plumbers too?
Jesse Wetherell
June 15, 2021 at 9:30 pm
Wow, you so cleverly missed the point, amazing.
Peter Petrakis
June 15, 2021 at 10:16 pm
@Jesse Wetherell Thank you for your contribution.
Jesse Wetherell
June 16, 2021 at 12:14 am
@Peter Petrakis Your welcome.
Sasataf
June 16, 2021 at 1:05 pm
You’re comparing two very different professions. A plumber can’t learn to do what a lawyer does or vice versa. An accountant would be a better comparison. Both are similar in skillset. And nowadays it’s becoming easier and easier to do your own accounting. For example, to submit my tax returns takes me 15 minutes with no assistance from an accountant. My parents used to take days to do a tax return, and my mum IS an accountant.
What once were “complex” tasks requiring “experts” are now minor inconveniences. Law doesn’t have to be laborious just because it’s expected to be.
Peter Petrakis
June 16, 2021 at 2:50 pm
@Sasataf The point that Mr. Pavuluri failed to make (which is why there was nothing to “miss”) is that generating a form is dramatically different than arguing a case depending a specific set of facts. How do you empower someone to impeach a witness or facts presented by the other side at trial? The success of a criminal trial hinges on an attorney wielding that skill. That skill is earned and developed over time by plying the trade of practicing law. I choose plumbers as an example because in my opinion, on average, they’re the trade you call when you have an emergency, you can’t do the job yourself adequately, and there are severe consequences if the work is done incorrectly.
Your accounting example reinforces the point Mr. Pavuluri made in his opening, which I did not dispute. My problem with him is that the title of the video is about empowerment, he lays down the premise of what actual empowerment looks like by developing a *very narrow technical solution* to solve a single legal issue. He then takes that accomplishment and turns it into a soap box to preach about inequities in the justice system at a very abstract level, and continues increasing that level of abstraction only to end it with a call to action of an idea.
Now we’re left to speculate as to what he actually means. Does he want “universal healthcare for lawyers”? That’s not empowerment, it’s entitlement.
Transcendent 1
June 15, 2021 at 9:33 pm
This is a noble cause and I hope they extend it to other family or civil matters as stated (i.e. divorce.) It could become especially useful if laws change regarding student debt which can affect which jobs you qualify for and which can result in lower income bracket. Which perpetuates the cycle of poverty despite being educated. There are a few ignorant a$$holes in the comments who clearly lack the intelligence to conceive of how a person may not afford or qualify for insurance coverage or other resources which is also state specific and while you might meet the income threshold, if you don’t have children the state is not as concerned about how or if you have access to resources. Over the years the variability in forms of coverage and increased rates for coverage complicate the whole notion of “good coverage.” How many pple ever predict they will need longterm care?
Major Old Lady aka, Mom
June 15, 2021 at 11:10 pm
My parents retired at 55 multimillionaires. They are both in their early 80s now.
COLA, med deductibles, maintaining their property in the mountains, the cars, trucks, SUVs, RVs, boats, insurance.
Mom has 6 stents in her heart, 2 of which are failing, a full hip replacement, and dad has a Pacemaker.
Go figure.
Terros
June 15, 2021 at 10:05 pm
Only in America,.. you people are f*cked up. He sounds somewhat sympathetic but don´t be mistaken, this guy is part of your problem
Ligia Sommers
June 15, 2021 at 10:17 pm
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🙏🏻💖🌹
Sabin
June 15, 2021 at 10:41 pm
I agreed with everything this guy said in his ad (and make no mistake, this WAS a full-on advertisement disguised as a TED Talk), until he tried to make it a race issue. If he want to make the case that the legal system discriminates against poor people, fine. If he wants to make the case that black and brown people are overrepresented in lower economic statuses, fine. But you can’t skip to claiming the legal system is racist because the middle parts have some truth to them. People lose all credibility when they engage in that sort of sensationalism.
Craig Nolan
June 15, 2021 at 11:41 pm
Or you could just have universal healthcare…
Paul C.
June 16, 2021 at 2:36 pm
Exactly Craig. If that had happened in Great Britain for example, there would not have been any hospital bill at all.
Ratih Qamara Dewi
June 19, 2021 at 5:25 pm
Did you know why US don’t have universal healthcare?
Paul C.
June 20, 2021 at 6:34 am
@Ratih Qamara Dewi Civilised societies have universal healthcare, as in Britain & Europe. Un-cilivised societies do not.
Sameer Ahmad
June 16, 2021 at 1:07 am
This is a great step…i hope its accessible in india as per laws here in future.
Marilyn Schmidt
June 16, 2021 at 4:56 am
If and when the time comes, hold your head high and declare “I’m bankrupt!” 👌
Kevin Wells
June 16, 2021 at 5:30 am
Absolutely
ADEMU OJOCHIDE
June 16, 2021 at 5:38 am
hello friend, can I introduce you to the great woman who can help you solve all the problems, don’t waste your time here………
ADEMU OJOCHIDE
June 16, 2021 at 5:38 am
text her now she can sol:ve your pro:blem:: don’t waste your time here…….
ADEMU OJOCHIDE
June 16, 2021 at 5:38 am
+ 2 3 4 8 1 1 0 5 0 1 7 4 2🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹
Kevin Wells
June 16, 2021 at 7:52 am
@ADEMU OJOCHIDE FO
Francisco Galindo Jr.
June 16, 2021 at 6:00 am
.
I suffered the same situation.
But civil society can act to solve our own legal problems, thanks to solidarity of many good and human ⚖️ lawyers, working all 2Gether.
Pay attention to 🇪🇸 Spain, because all the 🇺🇳 Humanity are a whole family.
And we are a team that is here to help.
*_I also am Topolino_*
.
Maniish
June 16, 2021 at 6:43 am
This is an ad ?
Targeted Victim
June 16, 2021 at 7:58 am
The Dutch media, various youtubers, twitchers, and the dutch police are trying to drive me to suicide. They have hacked my phone, laptop, and computer and are echoing whatever I do over the internet. I want my privacy back so I’ll keep spamming until I die or they release me. They have been stalking me for over 3 years now..
Self-Education Methodology
June 16, 2021 at 9:14 am
“All our dreams can come true, if we have the courage to pursue them.” – Walt Disney
TRIBE OF MENTORS
June 16, 2021 at 9:25 am
*Every family has one person who breaks all odds and achieves remarkable success I hope this is you who am referring to. Stay blessed* 🙏
shasha gu
June 16, 2021 at 9:41 am
so who pays the hospital after medical treatment.
aycc-nbh72
June 17, 2021 at 10:35 pm
Hospitals have something known as charity care, where money that benefactors contribute are used to pay for medical bills that people cannot afford.
Nguyễn Hưng
June 16, 2021 at 10:24 am
At least america economy is stable… lets looks at vietnam society, only racism
Nguyễn Hưng
June 16, 2021 at 10:31 am
When a kid loss her one left parent, he quit the school for work, ppl dont see that its their parents fault for leave the kid, they bully the kid… the kid cant get a job cuz he was school-dropped, they say “he should continue school, he shouldnt drop school”, it isnt his fault, schools arent free, they always say knowledge is free, but they make the laws, the laws say “there are tuition, u must pay it or we kick u.!..
Nguyễn Hưng
June 16, 2021 at 10:34 am
He doesnt have any choices or chances!
K𝖆𝖗𝖊e𝖒K𝑎𝑙𝑖𝑠𝑎𝑟i🇬
June 16, 2021 at 1:56 pm
LETS TOGETHER
𝑓𝑜𝑟 A BETTER 🌈🇼WO⃝RLD
🇬█ 𝔎𝑎𝑟𝑒𝑒𝑚 𝔎alisari│
June 16, 2021 at 1:56 pm
LETS TOGETHER
𝑓𝑜𝑟 A BETTER 🌈🇼WO⃝RLD
ABP Aomboon Puth
June 16, 2021 at 2:32 pm
LETS TOGETHER
𝑓𝑜𝑟 A BETTER 🌈🇼WO⃝RLD
Nisarg Jain
June 16, 2021 at 3:18 pm
I declaaaare baankruptcy !!!!!!!!
– Michael Scott
Abhishek Mathew
June 16, 2021 at 4:30 pm
Hello, from India
Sandy
June 16, 2021 at 11:06 pm
100% true.
Matthew Morycinski
June 17, 2021 at 5:46 am
(Polish-Canadian watching) I am so glad I did not pick immigration to the USA.
Sebastian Couper
June 22, 2021 at 12:26 am
But can’t you be sued in court in Canada, too, without representation?
mallus online
June 17, 2021 at 6:35 am
if someone get into a situation like this,
i hope they have a smartphone and internet
Pratyush Vashisht
June 17, 2021 at 7:14 pm
The context is applicable only in the US
horizontal120
June 18, 2021 at 4:58 am
it is not racial ! it is all about the money !! a rich racial man can get all the things !! its all about the money !! stop making it sound like the cooler of skin makes a difference ! the status dose !!
uTubeStalker DotCom
June 18, 2021 at 7:48 am
The “App” is called Upsolve, you can find it online just search for it
Syril Sabu
June 18, 2021 at 12:51 pm
✌️↗️
Emz Nand
June 19, 2021 at 8:12 pm
Sooo I’m what’s the App?
kevinth66
June 20, 2021 at 2:18 am
While this sounds like an uplifting story, from my vantage point looking in from the outside this is just wrong on so many different levels. USA is just so broken for its people.
Sacda Abdurhman-Personal Growth
June 20, 2021 at 7:08 am
“Don’t be afraid to give up the good to go for the great.” Sharing some love from small YouTuber 🤍
Alparslan Korkmaz
June 20, 2021 at 1:53 pm
Nice video
Rasuljon tillaxonov
June 21, 2021 at 1:02 am
What’s the name of an app?
Sebastian Couper
June 22, 2021 at 12:25 am
Thank you so much for your efforts in creating an app. Next in going to dl the app myself. I’ve once been blessed with help of a pro-bono attorney, who had to teach me what to say, how to say it, and even how to produce the lined-paper they would need just to recognize my communications as legal documentation. I was very lucky to find that great help and I truly want everyone being threatened by civil suit to be properly prepared, if not represented, at the cost of what it cost them to begin the dispute, which was probably nothing in the first place. Let’s get equality.
Traveluxe
June 22, 2021 at 7:26 pm
Hey can you fit this model in India ?